Author Topic: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread  (Read 32510 times)

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #350 on: January 12, 2023, 11:48:08 AM »
Well, we will see more results soon given that I distributed over 200 seeds with some forum members a couple months back. To be honest if you can get good germination rates with seeds I don't see a problem. They'd make great future rootstocks anyway.

pinkturtle

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #351 on: January 12, 2023, 11:52:05 AM »
For those members want to grow YangMei by seeds.  I brought about 30 seeds from eBay 2 years ago, it took over a year to germinated and only 1 sprouted.  I did another one on Nov 2022, so far no sign of sprouting yet.

I am surprised the Calmei fruit to seedling pipeline isn't more full. The fruit was very expensive so I didn't let any of the seeds go to waste, they all got potted, and I'm seeing new sprouts every day now. I think freshness of seed is paramount in yangmei (and a lot of patience waiting for it to sprout). I think I bought those fruit around July or August.

You are correct, since my seeds were brought from eBay.  Don't know how long they were stored in the storage before sent out to me.  Hopefully my Nov 2002 batch have to better success rate.

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #352 on: January 12, 2023, 01:18:28 PM »
Hello folks
Just some tips from my personal experience with seedling yangmei trees here in Portugal northwest Atlantic coast (climate 9a):

From seeds planted back in 2013 and 2014 I successfully grew 12 seedlings. According to my records, one seedling sprouted in 2014 and all others in 2015.
Grew these seedlings in pots for some years and eventually planted all outside in the open back in 2016 or 2017 (donít recall exact dates)
All seedlings grew well with no special care and got first flowers on a female plant back in 2020. No fruit set because no male flowers around.
In 2021 had first flowers on 3 other seedlings (1 male + 2 females ). All females had good fruit set as soon I got first male flowers in the orchard.
In 2022 all seedling trees flowered and fruited, and I ended up with exactly 6 males and 6 females.
So, my personal experience is that in 5 to 6 years from seed you can get seedlings to flower and fruit, and apparently chances are 50/50 to grow male or female trees from seed.

Absolutely you must consider having at least a male tree around your females to get good fruit set.
The main difference I have observed on male seedling trees is the vigor of the flowers and the timing of pollen production, meaning I have a male tree that starts shedding pollen very early in the year (early February) while others only start shedding pollen by march.
On the female seedling trees, I have noted a lot of variations on fruit quality, and so far, I have 4 out of 6 females that I already considered to be keepers and worth of propagation.
The 2 female seedling trees that I rated negatively for now were only because they produced lower caliber fruits even if the taste was still very good, but even these will be observed in the coming years for further evaluation as for now these 2 female trees were only on their first year of fruit set.
Two of my female seedling trees are producing what I consider excellent fruits in terms of fruit caliber and taste (a black fruit variety and a bright red fruit variety)
One of the female seedling trees is remarkable because of fruit ripeness precocity. This one show mature female flowers very early in the year (early to mid-February) and then starts ripening fruits by end of May, while the other female seedlings only start giving ripe fruits by end of June and early July, so basically this female tree gives me ripe yangmei fruits one full month ahead of others and extends the fruiting season.

For those familiar with my Facebook page you can find there some photos and videos of my Yangmei trees and fruits. Just look for "Miguel PT" on Facebook.

Before starting my experience with these 12 seedlings, I also grew a grafted tree from a supposed self-fertile variety. I imported this tree from a nursery in England back in 2008. I believe the English nursery imported it directly from China.
This grafted tree grew well and started flowering while still in a pot, and all flowers I could observe were clearly female. Even with closer observation I never detected any male flowers on this tree.
For years it flowered consistently without setting any fruits but eventually it had some fruit set some years, but the fruits were always in small quantity and production was not consistence with some years with zero fruit set, and other years with fruit set on only some branches.
On my records I found first photos of my Yangmei fruits dated from 2016 and I remember Iíve had fruits before but unfortunately, I didnít kept any photos of it, but I still think I might have the record of the first Yangmei fruits produced in Europe.
My observation is that this self-fertile tree did in fact produced some male flowers, but not consistently and the quantity of pollen is not enough to assure good pollination and fruit set.

This is an ongoing experience, and these are for now my first report of results and comments.
Hope it can be helpful for you, guys.
Just keep it growing and good luck to you all Yangmei aficionados

Thanks for all the detailed information Miguel! That is extremely useful information, especially the time to fruiting and fruit quality. Iím so excited about this newly rediscovered fruit!

Simon

CarolinaZone

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #353 on: January 12, 2023, 05:59:40 PM »
When the buy comes through I plan on doing some grafting. There are Myrica cerifera Southern Wax Myrtle available. Californica seems to be nowhere to be found in my area. What do you guys think? Is it viable for grafting or not? For those of you who tried how long was your scion?

CarolinaZone

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #354 on: January 12, 2023, 08:15:24 PM »
ヤマモモ
山桃
https://youtu.be/zv_Y382MWak

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #355 on: January 12, 2023, 09:58:36 PM »
Yes, M cerifera and Californica are both good candidates for grafting Yangmei. Iíve grafted long scions 3-5 inches long and also much smaller scions 1 inch long and they both grew fine.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #356 on: January 12, 2023, 11:22:46 PM »
Yes, M cerifera and Californica are both good candidates for grafting Yangmei. Iíve grafted long scions 3-5 inches long and also much smaller scions 1 inch long and they both grew fine.

Simon
What diameter did you find worked best?

pinkturtle

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #357 on: January 13, 2023, 12:55:50 AM »

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #358 on: January 13, 2023, 08:56:35 AM »
ヤマモモ
山桃
https://youtu.be/zv_Y382MWak

That is bayberry not YangMei.
Are they not the same? Looks to be yangmei as they called it yamamomo. Nonetheless, those fruit looked small compared to others I've seen.

CarolinaZone

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #359 on: January 13, 2023, 01:21:49 PM »
ヤマモモ
山桃
https://youtu.be/zv_Y382MWak

That is bayberry not YangMei.
Bayberries are not yang mei? Do you know anything about them? Maybe they are also a grafting candidate. Yamamomo is in the same family as bayberry, ;) ....I think.

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #360 on: January 13, 2023, 02:06:11 PM »
When I cleft graft my trees, I try to match the diameter of the scion with the rootstock. The diameter is usually around 4 mm.

Yamamomo and Bayberry are typically both referring to Yangmei. In the Myrica/Morella genus, there are multiple species that produce edible fruit. Bayberry can be used to reference some of these other species but it generally refers to Yangmei as it is the most commonly planted species used for its fruit.

In Japan, it is often planted as an ornamental tree. Some of the seedling Yangmei have smaller fruit and some of the close relatives also have similar looking fruit that are often smaller in size.
Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #361 on: January 23, 2023, 11:02:22 PM »
Congratulations on your success! Feel free to post pictures on this thread.

One word of caution is that if youíre using parafilm or Buddytape to hold in the moisture, I remove the film as soon as I start seeing buds. I like to remove the film before they brake through because they form so many buds, it becomes extremely difficult to remove the film later on.

Simon

great tip, thanks

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #362 on: January 25, 2023, 01:38:07 PM »
I believe I have my first blooms on a few of my Yangmei plants today. I noticed that the morphology of the new growths coming out of my An Hai look noticeably different than the regular buds that form vegetative growths. This tree is growing outside and was grafted 4 months ago onto M Californica rootstock. I try to avoid planting trees with rootstocks originating from China because of the potential for them to have Root Knot Nematodes.

I am not positive that these buds will become flowers but they sure look different than what Iím used to seeing. Even if these are flowers, I will not get fruit this year because my males have no signs of flowering yet. I have also noticed these ďassumedĒ flower buds on Biqi and Dongkui trees that are scattered around San Diego.







Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #363 on: January 25, 2023, 01:51:37 PM »
I believe I have my first blooms on a few of my Yangmei plants today. I noticed that the morphology of the new growths coming out of my An Hai look noticeably different than the regular buds that form vegetative growths. This tree is growing outside and was grafted 4 months ago onto M Californica rootstock. I try to avoid planting trees with rootstocks originating from China because of the potential for them to have Root Knot Nematodes.

I am not positive that these buds will become flowers but they sure look different than what Iím used to seeing. Even if these are flowers, I will not get fruit this year because my males have no signs of flowering yet. I have also noticed these ďassumedĒ flower buds on Biqi and Dongkui trees that are scattered around San Diego.







Simon
Gosh darn it! I'm sorry to let you know. Those growths are stanicite equipoidea bugs. Your trees are in great danger  Fortunately for you I happen to be one of three researchers that have a viable cure for them. I use a technique called "scion harvesting" to eliminate the problem. Just ship the infected plants out to me. I'll take care of it..... Really 😁

K-Rimes

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #364 on: January 25, 2023, 02:00:45 PM »
I believe I have my first blooms on a few of my Yangmei plants today.

Looks very promising!

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #365 on: January 25, 2023, 02:10:35 PM »
I believe I have my first blooms on a few of my Yangmei plants today. I noticed that the morphology of the new growths coming out of my An Hai look noticeably different than the regular buds that form vegetative growths. This tree is growing outside and was grafted 4 months ago onto M Californica rootstock. I try to avoid planting trees with rootstocks originating from China because of the potential for them to have Root Knot Nematodes.

I am not positive that these buds will become flowers but they sure look different than what Iím used to seeing. Even if these are flowers, I will not get fruit this year because my males have no signs of flowering yet. I have also noticed these ďassumedĒ flower buds on Biqi and Dongkui trees that are scattered around San Diego.







Simon
Gosh darn it! I'm sorry to let you know. Those growths are stanicite equipoidea bugs. Your trees are in great danger  Fortunately for you I happen to be one of three researchers that have a viable cure for them. I use a technique called "scion harvesting" to eliminate the problem. Just ship the infected plants out to me. I'll take care of it..... Really 😁

Based off your detailed analysis of this horrifying stanicite equipoidea bug, I have decided to incinerate all affected trees in order to avoid passing this bug to others. This ď scion harvestingĒ technique sounds very interesting, I will look into it some more and hope this technique can save my remaining trees from this horrible insect, lol!

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #366 on: January 25, 2023, 02:20:53 PM »
Wow, that's awesome, Simon! Good luck!

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #367 on: January 25, 2023, 02:21:19 PM »
I believe I have my first blooms on a few of my Yangmei plants today.

Looks very promising!

Thanks, just in case anyone has not seen a vegetative bud on Yangmei, it is usually smaller, more pointy and doesnít have as many scales. This supposed flower bud has many scales and looks reminiscent of a hops bud. I could still be completely wrong but it just looks different to me. Iíve been wrong many times before so take this post with a grain of salt.

It would be very exciting if this truly is a flower bud because itís bringing us one step closer to fruiting this relatively new introduction. I know a lot of people (Facebook Yangmei group) have already fruited Yangmei, does this look like a potential bloom to you?

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #368 on: January 25, 2023, 04:54:58 PM »
simon, congrats on your potential buds, very exciting!  i was wondering whether you have ever considered multi rootstock grafting yangmeis?  your thread about doing so with mangoes is the 1st time i've heard of the concept and i find it very intriguing. 

i get the impression that, just like with hybridization, the trick is finding the optimal amount of difference. monoembryonic and polyembryonic mangoes are relatively different, but how much difference is there among the group order yangmeis? 

i imagine that there must be more difference between myrica species than within rubra itself.  so what would happen if a rubra rootstock was combined with a californica rootstock?  would this be more beneficial than having a rubra growing solely on a californica rootstock?

hedging bets is generally a sound strategy so i can't help but feel like multi rootstock grafting is a good idea. 

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #369 on: January 25, 2023, 05:51:08 PM »
Hey Epiphyte,

It crossed my mind but Yangmei grows so fast that Iím not sure if there will be much benefit. For Mangos, I was trying to get my trees to grow faster but Yangmei takes off like a rocket once the root system gets established. Multiple rootstocking may increase yields, increase precocity and may inhibit alternate bearing but this crop is so novel that we donít have a baseline to compare it against.

Most my grafted Yangmei shoot for the sky like this




Iíve been topping them very low to create lower scaffold branches for easier harvesting.

Simon

Epiphyte

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #370 on: January 25, 2023, 07:44:53 PM »
simon that's a happy looking yangmei.  out of curiosity, how close are you to the coast?  i'm kinda thinking that yangmei tend to be cooler to intermediate growers.

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #371 on: January 25, 2023, 08:39:54 PM »
Iím about 15 miles from the ocean, as the crow flies but Iím considered coastal inland to inland.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #372 on: January 25, 2023, 10:08:32 PM »
Simon, I have never seen a Yangmei plant in real life, but I have a female wax myrtle (myrica cerifera) in my back yard. Its flower buds look exactly like what you have in the picture.

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #373 on: January 25, 2023, 10:45:38 PM »
Hey Galatians552,

Thanks for the confirmation! If you have a Cerifera plant already growing you should consider grafting Yangmei onto it. Iíve grafted a bunch of Cerifera rootstocks and they grow great. The only problem I have with Cerifera is that Iíll occasionally get scions that grow much faster than the rootstock so the trees will be top heavy until the rootstock catches up.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #374 on: January 26, 2023, 11:33:35 AM »
Hereís an example


Simon

 

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