Author Topic: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit  (Read 3279 times)

Kankan

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Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« on: June 16, 2023, 04:10:29 AM »
I know theres a bunch of info on the forum and online but it seems to have changed overtime and maybe even based on geography. For every source that claims a variety of dragon fruit (DF) is self pollinating (SP) theres another that says it is not. I'm sure some of the problem is incorrectly named varieties along with incorrect observations early on. Im hoping theres enough experience out there now to more definitively say if a variety is Self Sterile (SS) or (SP). So heres a list (mostly what I have) to start with, If SP or SF is not next to the name it's because theres conflicting info out there. Would love opinions from those who are reasonably positive the variety they have experience with is correctly identified, and my apologies for beating a dead horse but I could not find a comprehensive and updated thread dedicated to this topic specifically.

-American Beauty (SP)
-Physical Graffiti
-La Verne
-Purple Haze (SS)
-Asunta 3 (SS)
-Isis Yellow
-Israeli Yellow
-Voodoo Child
-Sugar Dragon (SP)
-Delight
-Haileys Comet (SS)
-Dark Star
-Condor (SS)
-Connie Mayer (SS)
-Lisa
-Shayna
-Pink Panther
-Queen Daenerys
-Hana
-White King Hollywood
-Godzilla
-Maria Rosa
-Frankies Red
-Aztec Gem (SF)
-Vietnamese White (SP)
-Megalanthus (SP)

Jose Spain

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2023, 06:35:39 AM »
I
« Last Edit: June 16, 2023, 06:51:41 AM by Jose Spain »

Timbogrow

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2023, 07:48:02 AM »
Good topic! There is so much conflicting data out there floating around. I want to trust the observations from spicy exotics and seeds del mundo but then when you read about condor they conflict ughhh thats really annoying lol...... seems they both agree about haleys comet being self fertile. I got the mini hand held vacuum and some desiccant packets for 20$ and just going to start collecting pollen for hand pollination. Good luck in your selections and purchases everyone.

irun5k

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2023, 11:23:03 PM »
These are the criteria for evaluating any variety:

Self pollinating: anthers are close to the stigma meaning pollination can happen without assistance.  However, manual pollination can still help fruit set/fruit size.
Self fertile: it can set fruit using its own pollen
Self sterile: it requires pollen from another variety to set fruit.

also,
Universal pollinator: a variety with pollen that can pollinate most other varieties.

American Beauty is for sure self fertile and is also a great universal pollinator. However there may be two different cultivars that are known as American Beauty- my flowers have long stigmas, for example, and are not likely to self pollinate.  I've seen other "American Beauty" flowers that have short stigmas. 

I also have Halley's Comet and Delight.  They are both self sterile.  Also, Halley's Comet cannot pollinate Delight, nor can Delight pollinate Halley's Comet- they are genetically too close.  However, American Beauty can pollinate both of them.

Growing a variety like American Beauty and/or Sugar Dragon/S8 can really make things easier.  If can be difficult if you have too many varieties that require cross pollination... it is terrible to see a self-sterile variety light up with blooms if you don't have any pollen frozen and your universal pollinator won't bloom in time.

Also, it goes w/o saying but "self pollinating" is only a relevant characteristic if the variety is also self sterile.  It won't matter if the anthers can get the pollen to the stigma w/o assistance if the pollen is useless.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2023, 11:25:27 PM by irun5k »

Timbogrow

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2023, 07:21:37 AM »
So one of us has mislabeled cuttings is what I take from that 😆. There shouldn't have been fruit on my haleys comet then since you disagree with both websites, an ebay seller and my assessment of not pollinating haleys comet. In the end I really don't care about names just the fruit taste.


brian

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2023, 11:00:04 AM »
Damn, I had always assumed they were all self-fruitful.  Needing TWO giant thorny tippy hazards kills any lingering thoughts I had about trying to grow these again.  Probably just not a good fit for a greenhouse
« Last Edit: June 17, 2023, 01:52:07 PM by brian »

irun5k

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2023, 12:27:09 PM »
So one of us has mislabeled cuttings is what I take from that 😆. There shouldn't have been fruit on my haleys comet then since you disagree with both websites, an ebay seller and my assessment of not pollinating haleys comet. In the end I really don't care about names just the fruit taste.


The majority of growers and websites will cite Halley's Comet as self-sterile, but you will also find sources that say the opposite.  There are also some sources that say "it depends" (presumably on some external condition) and I think this is the fuzziest area of all.  There doesn't seem to be a lot of truly scientific research to begin with and certainly not much across different climates and conditions.  When I first got started I had a self-sterile variety that would never set fruit (it was clearly mislabeled from Home Depot) but I did get a random fruit or two at a couple times which I would assume was the result of moths or other night insects bringing pollen from one of my neighbors?  But who knows, really.

And yes, without genetic testing it is difficult to know what variety you ended up with regardless of how it was labeled/sold.  The best you can do is buy from a reputable seller and compare your plants and fruit with what you believe to be authoritative sources, but as already mentioned there can be disagreement even among some of the larger growers/nurseries.

I normally do my comparisons against https://www.tropicalfruitnursery.com/variety-viewer-variety-dragon-fruit--reference-2 but like you say, in the end if it tastes good and has the other characteristics we desire, that is what is most important.


drymifolia

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2023, 12:41:32 PM »
Damn, I had always assumed they were all self-fruitful.  Need TWO giant thorny tippy hazards kills any lingering thoughts I had about trying to grow these again.  Probably just not a good fit for a greenhouse

I believe all megalanthus cultivars are self-fruitful or at least self-compatible when hand pollinated, and I personally think they taste better than most undatus cultivars or hybrids.

max

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2023, 07:26:01 PM »
The thing is though, things like temp, humidity, and the age of the plant can contribute to a plant being misidentified as self sterile or fertile. ive heard that too much or too less humidity can cause a self fertile plant to reject its own pollen, but ive also heard things like temperature stressing the plant out enough so that itll accept its own pollen even if its sterile.

Jose Spain

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2023, 04:42:41 PM »


I also have Halley's Comet and Delight.  They are both self sterile.  Also, Halley's Comet cannot pollinate Delight, nor can Delight pollinate Halley's Comet- they are genetically too close.  However, American Beauty can pollinate both of them.



So there are at least 2 clones of Delight out there since the one in Spicy Exotics is self-fertile.

John B

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2023, 08:27:30 PM »
Damn, I had always assumed they were all self-fruitful.  Needing TWO giant thorny tippy hazards kills any lingering thoughts I had about trying to grow these again.  Probably just not a good fit for a greenhouse

After nearly 20 years growing these vines, just grow S8. It'll do great in your GF, and is self pollinating. Typically only one spine per areola, so it's not as thorny as the others. If you need a few cuttings, let me know and I'll send you out some. Just pay shipping. I'd be leery to follow any of the information on YouTube or Facebook. Lot of misinformation out there from those mono croppers trying to make a buck.

Eggo

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2023, 03:23:37 AM »
What is S8? I have not kept up with dragonfruit the last decade or more.

About 15 years ago I grew 2 self pollinating red flesh variety.  1 was American Beauty and it always had produce good size fruit. The other was one I called Thai Red which I received from a Thai fella that said it was from Thailand. It produce clearly smaller fruit but occassionally threw out large fruits, it was self pollinating but I think may produce much larger fruit when cross pollinated.

It's still incredible that after all these years and the crazy number of varieties out there now (feels like every dragonfruit hobbyist has their own variety now ahaha) yet, there's still truly only a few self pollinating reds with American Beauty still being the best SP red flesh cultivar.

Jose Spain

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2023, 05:34:28 AM »
S8 = Sugar Dragon = Voodoo Child

It doesn't produce big fruit but the taste is the best, and productivity is also good.

Kankan

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2023, 10:43:41 AM »

[/quote]
After nearly 20 years growing these vines, just grow S8. It'll do great in your GF, and is self pollinating.
[/quote]


I've heard that from most experienced growers in San Diego CA area. I definitely have more S8 than any other but with 14 concrete posts up Id like to try other, different tasting varieties, I just know Im not going to hike down to the lower part of my property to hand pollinate at 11pm so want to get a few different varieties that are somewhat definitively self pollinators.

Kankan

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2023, 10:45:39 AM »
S8 = Sugar Dragon = Voodoo Child

It doesn't produce big fruit but the taste is the best, and productivity is also good.

So I have Voodoo Child as well as S8 (Sugar Dragon), is it fairly settled that S8 is the same as Voodoo Child?

John B

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2023, 01:26:07 PM »
S8 = Sugar Dragon = Voodoo Child

It doesn't produce big fruit but the taste is the best, and productivity is also good.

So I have Voodoo Child as well as S8 (Sugar Dragon), is it fairly settled that S8 is the same as Voodoo Child?

No, S8 is not the same as Voodoo Child. They are extremely similar but genetically different. They were different seedlings. Unfortunately, a lot of information from the old Yahoo Pitaya group are long gone which contained historical information by reliable growers. I'm sure someone can dig up the genetic testing information that was done. I grew VC back in 2012, I want to say. Flowers were slightly different and fruit was a bit darker. It was just another variety that went into the compost bin while the S8 lived on.

Jose Spain

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2023, 03:15:54 AM »
S8 = Sugar Dragon = Voodoo Child

It doesn't produce big fruit but the taste is the best, and productivity is also good.

So I have Voodoo Child as well as S8 (Sugar Dragon), is it fairly settled that S8 is the same as Voodoo Child?

No, S8 is not the same as Voodoo Child. They are extremely similar but genetically different. They were different seedlings. Unfortunately, a lot of information from the old Yahoo Pitaya group are long gone which contained historical information by reliable growers. I'm sure someone can dig up the genetic testing information that was done. I grew VC back in 2012, I want to say. Flowers were slightly different and fruit was a bit darker. It was just another variety that went into the compost bin while the S8 lived on.

Interesting, the information in Spicy Exotics is somehow confusing.
https://spicyexotics.com/product/voodoo-child/

Jose Spain

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2023, 03:28:31 AM »

I've heard that from most experienced growers in San Diego CA area. I definitely have more S8 than any other but with 14 concrete posts up Id like to try other, different tasting varieties, I just know Im not going to hike down to the lower part of my property to hand pollinate at 11pm so want to get a few different varieties that are somewhat definitively self pollinators.

What I do is to open them at 8-9 PM with my hands, I break petals and sepals back, collect the pollen and pollinate them. Never had a problem with setting doing this. As far as you do it carefully and don't break the stem of the stigma, the flower sets perfectly (using the right pollen, of course).
« Last Edit: June 20, 2023, 03:32:21 AM by Jose Spain »

GIV

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2023, 05:12:44 AM »
A few more for your list
Armando
Asunta
Ax
Bruni
Cosmic Charlie
Country Road
Dark Star (S9)
Delight (S3)
Edgars Baby
Neon  (SF) - Like Sugar but possibly better
Houghton (SF)
Purple Haze
Rixford

Mike T

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2023, 06:21:55 AM »
I see a lot of names of ones I grew a while ago and thought they would ne world beaters. I still have little bits of some of the american beauty, vc, dark star, david bowie, desert king and a few other well named cosmic dfs. They kinda feel like yesterdays heroes. Self fertile heavy cropping sweeter types seem to be around now in Australia and I grow mostly purple princess and colombian red but also have a locally bred white hybrid. They seem to taste better than the ones I used to grow.

Daintree

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2023, 09:03:15 AM »
Well, I am waiting eagerly to see if mine is self-fertile. I have three different dragonfruit on the same pot, but only got one flower right now, which I hand-pollinated. Not named varieties, or at least not labeled - collected from fruit eaten in Indonesia, and of all places, Vienna Austria. Tasted really good so I saved the seeds and grew them up. They are all red fleshed.

Question - How long until I can tell if my pollinization night before last was successful? The flower has wilted but is still hanging on.

Thanks!
Carolyn

Timbogrow

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2023, 11:06:07 AM »
Well, I am waiting eagerly to see if mine is self-fertile. I have three different dragonfruit on the same pot, but only got one flower right now, which I hand-pollinated. Not named varieties, or at least not labeled - collected from fruit eaten in Indonesia, and of all places, Vienna Austria. Tasted really good so I saved the seeds and grew them up. They are all red fleshed.

Question - How long until I can tell if my pollinization night before last was successful? The flower has wilted but is still hanging on.

Thanks!
Carolyn
Mine usually just turn yellow and fall off or start swelling and stay green. I sure hope you get to enjoy a or some fruit from your labor. Now my question is, where do I add another row of S8? Just made 5 more potted trellises and giving away 2 to friends that have the itch for tropical fruit. Good luck Caroline!

Kankan

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2023, 05:38:48 PM »
A few more for your list
Armando
Asunta
Ax
Bruni
Cosmic Charlie
Country Road
Dark Star (S9)
Delight (S3)
Edgars Baby
Neon  (SF) - Like Sugar but possibly better
Houghton (SF)
Purple Haze
Rixford

Thank you. Ive seen some of these (Delight, Purple Haze, and others) listed as needing pollinating from other dragon fruit...do you have experience with these being self pollinating?

Kankan

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2023, 05:41:00 PM »
I see a lot of names of ones I grew a while ago and thought they would ne world beaters. I still have little bits of some of the american beauty, vc, dark star, david bowie, desert king and a few other well named cosmic dfs. They kinda feel like yesterdays heroes. Self fertile heavy cropping sweeter types seem to be around now in Australia and I grow mostly purple princess and colombian red but also have a locally bred white hybrid. They seem to taste better than the ones I used to grow.

are purple princess and colombian red self pollinating?

Mike T

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Re: Identifying self pollinating varieties of Dragon Fruit
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2023, 03:00:25 AM »
Very much so and I think most people prefer to grow just the self pollinating types