Show me your atemoya trees

[sunworshiper]

I'd love to see pictures of well formed trees.  How do you shape them to keep them strong, productive and short enough to hand pollinate?

My tree (Gefner) was snapped off about 8 inches above the graft last year by a storm. This year it has put on some excellent growth and the trunk has thickened up nicely. I selected and trained a central leader and it made a number of nice primary scaffolds. Here is what it looks like now:



I won't be doing anything to it until spring, but if all goes well and it suffers no freeze damage, I want to know how to shape it further for best fruit production. I am thinking that I will top it, taking off the top two vigorous  shoots that are both vying for dominance. Then I'm thinking I should take 6-8" off of each primary scaffold to induce it to branch. Any advice?

And please show me what your producing trees look like - I'd love to see the structure they have!

[simon_grow]

Hey sun worshiper, this is a Cherimoya tree but you can kinda see how I shaped this tree. I topped it above the graft at about 2 feet above the ground. I then selected several nicely spaced new growth off the main trunk to use as the future scaffold branches. I like really low, nearly horizontal main scaffold branches so that secondary branches are kept low and within easy reach for pollinating and harvesting. I use weight and wedged to hold the future scaffold branches nearly horizontal as they grow.
Simon

[sunworshiper]

That's a beautiful tree Simon! Thanks for sharing! I have many questions about it=) Has it fruited yet? How tall is it overall? How many primary scaffolds are there, it is hard to tell in the picture, I think I see 8? Did you tip the primary scaffolds to make them branch? Or did you let them branch naturally? What is the advantage to making the main scaffolds nearly horizontal? Advise I've seen on shaping other types of fruit trees indicates that a 60 degree angle is better for supporting fruit load, and that a 90 degree angle can lead to limb breakage under heavy fruit load. Are cherimoyas/atemoyas different in that regard? How will you continue shaping this tree? What maintenance pruning will you do on it each year? Told you I had a lot of questions - any advice you want to offer would be appreciated.

Angela

[JF]

Sun

Here are pics of my two three years old atemoya trees. I followed Har's  and Alex from Papaya fruit nursery advise on pruning here is the thread and video.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=2666.0
How to Prune a Cherimoya Tree

[simon_grow]

Hello sun worshipped, this is the second season this tree has been in the ground and it is about 4.5 feet tall. I made a mistake with this tree because I was shooting for the scaffolds to be at 30 degree angles but I did not anticipate that the weight of the leaves would cause the young branches to droop further. If you shoot for 60 degrees, that will allow some wiggle room for natural drooping of the branches. I'm trying to copy the Cherimoya tree my uncle had at his old house which is absolutely the best shaped tree I've ever seen anywhere. It was extremely low, I believe the first scaffold branch started at about 1 foot off the ground. The highest branches on the tree were about 6 feet high. I remember that the whole foundation was was built on the low scaffold branches that were about 30-45 degrees from my recollection. This tree flowered in early spring but I did not hand pollinate because I want the tree to get larger first. It is the El Bumpo variety.
Simon

[Sven]

Sun,

The way you have it staked doesn’t promote a strong trunk.  The more the trunk or any branch bends the more diameter and therefore strength it will attain.  Nurseries stake trees in pots like you have yours staked because they grow taller faster that way since they don’t need to put energy into a strong trunk.  It’s better to put a stake on either side of the tree a foot or two away and then tie it to each stake.  This allows the trunk to sway and bend somewhat without damaging the roots and will give you a stronger trunk sooner.  The lower you can tie it and still have it stable the better.

Sven

[BMc]

Here is my PP. It's ugly and growth is mostly downward. In fact I've had to try to force some  erotically growth. It was grafted with lateral growth and sometimes that makes plants want to grow out much more than up. That's fine by me though as fruiting is heaviest on out or downward branches. The commercial plantations I pass every week are table topped at about 8ft.

This little tree has set about 6 fruit and it's still very early in the flowering season. PPs in under 3 gal bags in nurseries tend to have at least 2 fruits set.

[sunworshiper]

Wow - thanks for all the great replies! So helpful to see everyone's trees!

Simon - thanks for the extra information on the tree size and the angle of the branches. Very interesting that the leaves were enough to weigh the branches down. How long will you focus on increasing the size of the tree before you let it fruit?

JF - What great looking trees! And that video was really helpful for seeing how a mature tree is pruned. Additionally, it made me realize that they fruit on the current season's growth, which I think I not appreciated before. They share similarity with a peach tree in that they need a hard annual pruning, but it is very different in that peaches fruit on the previous season's growth. How did you get so many branches from a single point in that last picture? My tree seems to send out only two shoots at any given point on the trunk, one to each side so that the whole thing is rather ladder like right now. Once it is topped, does it put out more shoots? And how many scaffold branches is ideal from the same area of trunk? The "ideal" number seems to vary greatly with different types of fruit trees.

Sven, thanks for the advise. I have had mixed results with different staking methods. I have my lychee tree staked as you suggest, but it was strong enough to hold itself up to start with, and only needed a bit of extra stabilization to keep a strong wind from uprooting it. The atemoya however was the thickness of a pencil when I planted it, and completely unable to hold any of its growth upright. Last year, I staked it as you suggested, and sadly, a very strong windstorm overpowered one of the tension points on the trunk, and it was snapped off at about 8 inches off the ground (losing about 5' of tree). I had the same problem with a Hong Kong Orchid that snapped in the same windstorm (and that one was about the size of my wrist where it snapped). So I moved to the current staking system. I had good success with the Hong Kong Orchid. It is now 20' tall and has a trunk that is about 6" in diameter and no stake, perfectly self supporting. I'm hoping that after a spring pruning to shape it that the Gefner will be close to self supporting. It has sized up considerably this year and its trunk diameter is now larger than a quarter.

BMc - You tree looks very similar to others I've seen where the natural growth pattern was allowed to dominate rather than forcing a shape onto to the tree. How will you direct future growth? Will you prune to shape new growth, or only prune to keep the tree within size bounds? Being able to see a commercial plantation sounds really cool! There are none in my immediate area, as I'm zone pushing a bit and here in central FL they require a bit of cold protection on the colder years.

Keep the great advise and pictures coming!

Angela

[BMc]

I'll prune to keep the existing framework, rather than push it to become something else, especially sice it bears heavily with this style growth habit. I take it back to 20cm from the previous years wood.

[JF]

Wow - thanks for all the great replies! So helpful to see everyone's trees!

Simon - thanks for the extra information on the tree size and the angle of the branches. Very interesting that the leaves were enough to weigh the branches down. How long will you focus on increasing the size of the tree before you let it fruit?

JF - What great looking trees! And that video was really helpful for seeing how a mature tree is pruned. Additionally, it made me realize that they fruit on the current season's growth, which I think I not appreciated before. They share similarity with a peach tree in that they need a hard annual pruning, but it is very different in that peaches fruit on the previous season's growth. How did you get so many branches from a single point in that last picture? My tree seems to send out only two shoots at any given point on the trunk, one to each side so that the whole thing is rather ladder like right now. Once it is topped, does it put out more shoots? And how many scaffold branches is ideal from the same area of trunk? The "ideal" number seems to vary greatly with different types of fruit trees.

Sven, thanks for the advise. I have had mixed results with different staking methods. I have my lychee tree staked as you suggest, but it was strong enough to hold itself up to start with, and only needed a bit of extra stabilization to keep a strong wind from uprooting it. The atemoya however was the thickness of a pencil when I planted it, and completely unable to hold any of its growth upright. Last year, I staked it as you suggested, and sadly, a very strong windstorm overpowered one of the tension points on the trunk, and it was snapped off at about 8 inches off the ground (losing about 5' of tree). I had the same problem with a Hong Kong Orchid that snapped in the same windstorm (and that one was about the size of my wrist where it snapped). So I moved to the current staking system. I had good success with the Hong Kong Orchid. It is now 20' tall and has a trunk that is about 6" in diameter and no stake, perfectly self supporting. I'm hoping that after a spring pruning to shape it that the Gefner will be close to self supporting. It has sized up considerably this year and its trunk diameter is now larger than a quarter.

BMc - You tree looks very similar to others I've seen where the natural growth pattern was allowed to dominate rather than forcing a shape onto to the tree. How will you direct future growth? Will you prune to shape new growth, or only prune to keep the tree within size bounds? Being able to see a commercial plantation sounds really cool! There are none in my immediate area, as I'm zone pushing a bit and here in central FL they require a bit of cold protection on the colder years.

Keep the great advise and pictures coming!

Angela

Hi Angela

I don't do anything special other than strip the trees of all its leaves in March(a month in advance) and prune 3/4 of last years new growth. I keep a 4" layer of redwood mulch and some kelp every once in awhile. BTW, your tree looks spectacular!

[simon_grow]

Hey Sunworshiper, the weight of the leaves weighed down the branches because I purchased the tree late in the season and immediately topped it to promote side branching. It was late in the season so the side branches did not grow as strong as I had hoped. Ideally, I would wait until the season after next to let it hold fruit but I will likely let it hold one or two fruit next year in order to verify that it is an El Bumpo. I have worries whenever I buy a plant that it was mislabeled.

I'm no expert but I would think that your tree can hold fruit to maturity. It's just a matter of sacrifice. Would you prefer 5 fruits and a weaker tree this year with slightly less production next year or would you prefer no fruits this year with a stronger tree that will give you possibly much more and better quality fruit next year? I believe it was on Dave Wilson's website that he suggested fruit should be removed from most fruit trees the first 2-3 years. Dave Wilson works mainly with stone fruit but I use the advice on most my subtropical fruit trees.
Simon

[BMc]

Just drove through a bunch of orchards this morning on the way to Australia Zoo. Many look to be mechanically topped at under 2m, I assume to force lateral branching and heavier fruiting and easier harvest. They look strange, like tabletops or something.

[Sven]

Sven, thanks for the advise. I have had mixed results with different staking methods. I have my lychee tree staked as you suggest, but it was strong enough to hold itself up to start with, and only needed a bit of extra stabilization to keep a strong wind from uprooting it. The atemoya however was the thickness of a pencil when I planted it, and completely unable to hold any of its growth upright. Last year, I staked it as you suggested, and sadly, a very strong windstorm overpowered one of the tension points on the trunk, and it was snapped off at about 8 inches off the ground (losing about 5' of tree). I had the same problem with a Hong Kong Orchid that snapped in the same windstorm (and that one was about the size of my wrist where it snapped). So I moved to the current staking system. I had good success with the Hong Kong Orchid. It is now 20' tall and has a trunk that is about 6" in diameter and no stake, perfectly self supporting. I'm hoping that after a spring pruning to shape it that the Gefner will be close to self supporting. It has sized up considerably this year and its trunk diameter is now larger than a quarter.

Cool, you’re way ahead of me.  You can probably prune them back at planting time so there isn’t that much surface area for the wind to grab.  Twisting can also be a problem too if they aren’t tied tight.  Even the way you have it staked you can tie the lower ones tight and then leave the upper ties looser so the tree can sway back and forth a little bit but not enough to break which should help them put on girth. 

[sunworshiper]

Simon, thanks a lot for the insight on whether my tree should be allowed to fruit next year. I am considering this "year 1" of growth. The root system is more established than that, but since it snapped last year, the above ground part is a do-over. I am patient with my fruit trees, and have been removing fruit for the first 2-3 years from all of my trees with good results. This year I let all blooms do what they wanted to find out if I have any natural pollinators in my area. I do not, not a single bloom set fruit. I think this coming year I will focus on developing the structure of the tree and not let it fruit. However, I think I'll use the blooms it produces to practice hand pollination. I'll pollinate them and learn how to get them to set, but then remove the ones that do set. A bit of wasted energy for the tree, but shouldn't be enough to matter. Then the year after I should know the technique and the tree will be big enough to produce nice first crop.

BMc - that is crazy! That must look very strange. I'd love to see a photo if you have time to snap one on you way by.

Sven, I like the idea of tying the lower points tighter than the upper ones. I've done something sort of similar to that concept. I use the plastic tape to tie the bottom points tightly. The upper ties I do in raffia. In the pic, the plastic ties are to the really strong metal stake that won't budge. There is another stake that is hard to see that is a bamboo pole which has a lot more flex. I have tied the upper part of the tree to the bamboo stake using raffia. The raffia loosens gradually as it decays, so those spots start out with a firm tie with just the flexing of the bamboo and as the tree hopefully is getting stronger, the tie is also getting looser. I come by and evaluate them periodically, replacing the raffia if the tree isn't strong enough to hold itself yet by the time the raffia breaks down.

[sunworshiper]

Oh, and JF, hit post too soon on that last one. Thanks for the specific details on how you prune your trees. That is very helpful. Your technique clearly works!

[sunworshiper]

Thanks everyone for the advise on pruning. Thought I'd post an update. Here were the initial pruning cuts I made this spring


Here it is today - it has branched out really well:




I had a lot of fun learning to hand pollinate - and interestingly enough, once I started pollinating, some natural pollinators showed up. About half the fruit it set were natural pollination. The branches thickened up pretty well, so I've decided to let it hold a few fruit this year. Can't wait to taste one!

[huertasurbanas]

Beautiful photos and fruits, great job! my chirimoyas are only 1 year old. Maybe I will let them grow without pruning and just protec them from frosts. Atemoyas look better than chirimoyas

[sunworshiper]

Thanks! In what way do atemoyas look better than cherimoyas?

[huertasurbanas]

Thanks! In what way do atemoyas look better than cherimoyas?

They seem more attractive and rare to me... a cherimoya can look like a common pear to some people.

[sunworshiper]

Lol - it all depends on what is common where you live. I grew up where apple orchards were commonplace, and can't help but laugh a bit at how here in FL, apple trees are exotic.

[sunworshiper]

I updated the thread where I showed the break http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1862.0, and am cross posting the update image in this thread for those who find it useful. Here's the tree today - doing excellent this year, and scaffolds are forming nicely.  Thanks to everyone that gave me such great pruning advice!




And from the other side