Author Topic: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener  (Read 9283 times)

sc4001992

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #75 on: March 29, 2021, 09:16:28 PM »
sapote, what type of fruit tree were you grafting that takes 2yrs for scion to bud out? Just curious.

FlMikey

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Re: Mango: a modified Walter Zill grafting Technique for the blind gardener
« Reply #76 on: April 30, 2021, 09:41:52 PM »
I'll be attempting this method on a Venus tree with 3 graft points.  In some of the pictures in this thread, it looks like this graft is done on a more woody part of the tree.  The areas I'm thinking about are a mixture of woody / green, so hoping this works well.  This will be my first time trying to graft, so I might as well be a "blind gardener".  I'll try to post pics of the process / results.  Do the areas I have marked look like good locations to attempt this graft?









FlMikey

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I used this technique today on my Venus, and hoping the grafts took, although I'm not sure.  Did my best to get some pics, but I don't have any of the left lateral side branch graft, and my camera was having issues focusing on close up shots on the others.

Center branch pics -





Right lateral side branch pics -





I think my biggest challenge was finding a position on the Venus tree that was wide enough to fit the scion into.  In one of the earlier posts, I believe sapote mentions this method is best when you have 4" of room to work with.  I had roughly 1", or maybe slightly less.  I was able to get the scions in, but it was tight. 

Right now, I have a bag taped over the scions, and sprayed a little bit of water in the bag, so it has a humid environment and also prevent water from getting into the scion. 

I'll post results here.  This is fun and really hope it works!!!

bsbullie

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I used this technique today on my Venus, and hoping the grafts took, although I'm not sure.  Did my best to get some pics, but I don't have any of the left lateral side branch graft, and my camera was having issues focusing on close up shots on the others.

Center branch pics -





Right lateral side branch pics -





I think my biggest challenge was finding a position on the Venus tree that was wide enough to fit the scion into.  In one of the earlier posts, I believe sapote mentions this method is best when you have 4" of room to work with.  I had roughly 1", or maybe slightly less.  I was able to get the scions in, but it was tight. 

Right now, I have a bag taped over the scions, and sprayed a little bit of water in the bag, so it has a humid environment and also prevent water from getting into the scion. 

I'll post results here.  This is fun and really hope it works!!!

Did you peel down to/past the cadmium layer on the scion?  If so, would not have done so.  Regular veneer would have been your best option.
- Rob

FlMikey

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I used this technique today on my Venus, and hoping the grafts took, although I'm not sure.  Did my best to get some pics, but I don't have any of the left lateral side branch graft, and my camera was having issues focusing on close up shots on the others.

Center branch pics -





Right lateral side branch pics -





I think my biggest challenge was finding a position on the Venus tree that was wide enough to fit the scion into.  In one of the earlier posts, I believe sapote mentions this method is best when you have 4" of room to work with.  I had roughly 1", or maybe slightly less.  I was able to get the scions in, but it was tight. 

Right now, I have a bag taped over the scions, and sprayed a little bit of water in the bag, so it has a humid environment and also prevent water from getting into the scion. 

I'll post results here.  This is fun and really hope it works!!!

Did you peel down to/past the cadmium layer on the scion?  If so, would not have done so.  Regular veneer would have been your best option.

I believe I did peel a little past the cambium layer.  I tried to keep it shallow.  I chose this method because it looked like the easiest for a beginner.  I've never grafted before (and haven't had an opportunity to see grafting in person), so I wanted to try something that was "dummy" proof.  In any case, why are you recommending side veneer?  Just trying to learn.

I also did a Guave mango tree, that I grafted Angie, and that one I used a side cleft graft.  I was forced to use it though as I didn't have enough bark on the tree for this grave / coffin technique.  I hope that one takes.




bsbullie

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Cleft may be the most dummy proof.  In my opinion,  the "coffin" graft is a poor method (and has nothing to do with nor any resemblance to a graft by Walter Zill).  I am not sure why you would have stripped the scion.  Cant see anything hood to come of that.

If done right, side veneer is a fast take and makes for a good graft union.
- Rob

bsbullie

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I just noticed that what I thought was the scion being stripped was the tree you are grafting onto.  Did you cut the branch to match the scion wood so that its a flat match?

I am still not a fan of this type of graft
- Rob

FlMikey

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I just noticed that what I thought was the scion being stripped was the tree you are grafting onto.  Did you cut the branch to match the scion wood so that its a flat match?

I am still not a fan of this type of graft

Yes the scion wood was as close to flat as I could get it to the branch.  If this doesn't take, I'll try the side veneer - I'm definitely not giving up.  Also, I don't have an option to try this technique again as the bark wouldn't be wide enough on the tree branches I'm grafting.  That said, if it fails, will the tree heal the box area where I stripped the bark, or should I apply something to help it heal?

FlMikey

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On the Venus, it looks like 2/3 out of the 3 will have takes (the 3rd is still green so unknown status currently).  However, on the main central lead branch, I see the scion has a small brown square shape where the scion meets the bottom of the rootstock.  I'm not sure if this is part of the healing process or if this is rot that needs to be cut off.  Does anyone have suggestions - cut it off or leave as is?

Main central branch pics:





Left lateral branch pic (didn't have a pic of the graft at the time I did it, but can see it's pushing):



simon_grow

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The brown area looks fine. If the graft is good, it should heal over. Just be careful with all the rubber bands. If they are placed on too tightly, it could restrict the sap flow. Some grafts will grow vigorously and as the union heals and expands, it could restrict the growth of the scion. Iím not saying itís too tight but just keep your eye on it. Good luck with your grafts!

Simon

FlMikey

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The brown area looks fine. If the graft is good, it should heal over. Just be careful with all the rubber bands. If they are placed on too tightly, it could restrict the sap flow. Some grafts will grow vigorously and as the union heals and expands, it could restrict the growth of the scion. Iím not saying itís too tight but just keep your eye on it. Good luck with your grafts!

Simon

Thank you very much for the input and help Simon!  Noted about the rubber bands too.  At what point is it safe to remove the elastic bands?  I was thinking 4 weeks after the graft, but that's a purely arbitrary number.

simon_grow

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What you can do is re tie the bands a bit more loose at week 4. By week 4, especially in Florida, the union should at least be partially healed over if the graft was good it you still want something to prevent the scion from getting knocked off.

As long as the bands arenít girdling the union, you could probably leave it on until the union has completely healed over.

Simon

FlMikey

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What you can do is re tie the bands a bit more loose at week 4. By week 4, especially in Florida, the union should at least be partially healed over if the graft was good it you still want something to prevent the scion from getting knocked off.

As long as the bands arenít girdling the union, you could probably leave it on until the union has completely healed over.

Simon

Thanks again!  I think I'll play it safe and carefully remove and loosen the bands at week 4.  I know I pulled them pretty tight on 2/3 of them, so would rather play it safe.  I'll post results, good or bad, here in a couple weeks.