Citrus Grafting And Rootstock Questions

[NatAp22]

Are there any major benefits from growing rootstock from seeds then grafting them with budwoods or from taking rootstock suckers cuttings and then grafting them for growing in containers? Both are trifoliate orange. Lastly, since there not much to do in winter.....it is advisible to graft to get a head start inside our greenhouse? The temperature averages 65-75 during the day and at night average 45-50 degree F. Thanks so much of any answer or comments. Cheers.

[pagnr]

Seed propagation of rootstocks is generally preferred. The main reason is that seed do not transmit the majority of Citrus diseases, whereas cuttings may have virus or bacterial pathogens. This can then transfer to the scion causing graft take problems or long term problems.
Healthy young plants obtained from approved schemes, may not be a big problem for taking cutting materials, compared to older trees.
Second the roots of cuttings are said to be more fibrous, compared to the tap roots of seedlings.
That could lead to problems anchoring the plant in the soil.
I have found cuttings usually produce a few main roots, so not as big a problem for containers.
Trifoliata is often said to be one of the more difficult Citrus to root as cuttings. Some members here have had success.
Yes there are advantages to working in a greenhouse, both for the worker and the plants.
I would probably bud Citrus at slightly higher temps than those you quote.
Maybe other members could also comment on  this one ?

[poncirsguy]

Grafting citrus needs about 10F to 15F more heat for best results.

[NatAp22]

Wow thanks for the reply guys! Upon my further research, I believe the rootstock cuttings that I took is of "Kuharski Carrizo". Reason being the citrus plant was from Saxon n Becnel here in TX...I left it outside during last winter and it die all the way backs to it's rootstock, then come summer and a whole bunch of rootstock shoots arise, thus I took cuttings of it and rooted many. I will bump up the greenhouse night temperature to around 50ish degree and we will see what happen as I already got impatient and try to graft a handful of plant.

[poncirsguy]

Go to your grocery store and buy a Seville sour orange for its seeds.  They make for the best rootstocks.  Kuharske Citrange is a low grade rootstock from way back

[pagnr]

Go to your grocery store and buy a Seville sour orange for its seeds.  They make for the best rootstocks.  Kuharske Citrange is a low grade rootstock from way back

Are Seville Sour Orange commonly available in USA ? Not here in Australia.
I have found Smooth Seville and Poorman at the Adelaide Central Fruit Market, but not a Supermarket. Maybe at a speciality fruit shop you might find them here.

[caladri]

It's funny, I never saw sour oranges in the US, but in Canada I see them at just about every grocery store in late December to mid January, at least for a couple of weeks (not all at the same time.) They're fun enough to grow from seed (and keep astonishingly well, I get like 100% germination even after a year in the fridge), but so abundantly polyembryonic that it's actually kind of a pain to disentangle them!

[bussone]

Go to your grocery store and buy a Seville sour orange for its seeds.  They make for the best rootstocks.  Kuharske Citrange is a low grade rootstock from way back

Are Seville Sour Orange commonly available in USA ? Not here in Australia.
I have found Smooth Seville and Poorman at the Adelaide Central Fruit Market, but not a Supermarket. Maybe at a speciality fruit shop you might find them here.

I’ve found them in grocery stores, but it’s easier to order them.

[NatAp22]

Ahhh thanks for that great info poncirsguy! I will be on the lookout for it definitely. What are the major benefits of the seville orange rootstocks? Is it cold tolerant down to 25ish degrees? Sorry haven't research on this type of orange.

[1rainman]

All the root stock in Florida is sour orange, trifoliate or swingle (grapefruit x trifoliate) or maybe a sour orange hybrid. I don't notice any real difference between trifoliate or sour orange in terms of toughness or cold hardiness at least not this far south.

[poncirsguy]

Sour orange can go down to 18F  Trifoliata and FD-down to -22F/-30C.  For most scions the sour roots pull a lot of sugar,  The PT/FD also push sugar.

[Millet]

Sour orange was the go to rootstock until Tristazia various struck.  If you live in an area without the disease Sour Orange is an outstanding rootstock.  I have an inground Sour Orange tree, so I am able to get all the seed I can ever use.

[LittleCitrusLover]

Seville orange is pretty easy to get in California and I'd guess Texas is doable. I usually get them from farmer's markets.

If you're growing sour citrus like limes or lemons, Rangpur is probably worth considering. It's vigorous and productive, but also the most drought tolerant rootstock. It reduces sugar content for oranges and grapefruits. As water becomes scarcer, it seems like a smart choice, though that's a much more a California than Texas problem currently.

[NatAp22]

Thanks all once again for the comments. I will look for some sour orange seville seeds and try those out along with poncirus trifoliate. I am mainly trying to graft different type of mandarins in containers up here in the Panhandle of TX.

[Travillion]

Sour orange was the go to rootstock until Tristazia various struck.  If you live in an area without the disease Sour Orange is an outstanding rootstock.  I have an inground Sour Orange tree, so I am able to get all the seed I can ever use.

Do you get multiple seedlings per seed? I ask because I am growing seedlings from what I believed were sour orange. They came from the fruit of ornamental orange trees growing all over my neighborhood. Local parks department said they were sour orange. I germinated 18 seeds and only one sprouted two seedlings. I was counting on these seeds being true to mother based on polyembryony, but I did not observe polyembryony at all. So I worry that what I spent the last 17 months growing and just grafted onto may not actually be sour orange.....

[pagnr]

Most Sour Orange have Bergamot scented leaves. Smooth Seville probably a Pummelo Sour Hybrid doesn't have much scent.
Leaves of Seville are pointy trowel shaped with wide petioles.
https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus-varieties/category-or-type/sour-oranges

[Travillion]

Most Sour Orange have Bergamot scented leaves. Smooth Seville probably a Pummelo Sour Hybrid doesn't have much scent.
Leaves of Seville are pointy trowel shaped with wide petioles.
https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus-varieties/category-or-type/sour-oranges

When I grafted and had to remove many leaves, there was definitely a strong, pleasant scent. I don't know what Bergamot smells like though. These are the leaves from my seedlings.

[pagnr]

Bergamot is the scent in Earl Grey Tea. Sour Orange, Citrus aurantium has quite strong scented leaves.
The fruit and seeds are fairly distinct, ( also the juice flavour ) if you look at the pics in the UC Riverside link.
https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus-varieties/category-or-type/sour-oranges
Overall your pics look like sour orange, but I would put all the info together.
There might be a few types and hybrids used as rootstock.

[Travillion]

Bergamot is the scent in Earl Grey Tea. Sour Orange, Citrus aurantium has quite strong scented leaves.
The fruit and seeds are fairly distinct, ( also the juice flavour ) if you look at the pics in the UC Riverside link.
https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus-varieties/category-or-type/sour-oranges
Overall your pics look like sour orange, but I would put all the info together.
There might be a few types and hybrids used as rootstock.

Thanks for the info! I'm pretty sure the parent tree was a type of sour orange. They are definitely ornamental (vs. edible) and are not trifoliate. I can't think of what else it would have been. I guess what worries me is when I hear that sour orange seeds are polyembryonic and produce multiple sprouts per seed. And that was not my experience at all. Perhaps I did not get true-to-type seedlings and my goal to have sour orange rootstock was thwarted.

[pagnr]

I grew Rough Seville from seed last year, didn't notice many multiple seedlings if any. If the seedlings are fairly uniform, and none or few jump out as variants should be OK.

[poncirsguy]

I got 1 seedling per seed from my Seville seeds

[Travillion]

I grew Rough Seville from seed last year, didn't notice many multiple seedlings if any. If the seedlings are fairly uniform, and none or few jump out as variants should be OK.

I got 1 seedling per seed from my Seville seeds

Thank you both, I'll stop hyperventilating!

[drymifolia]

I was just transplanting my Pixie, purchased last year from Burchell Nursery in Oakdale, CA, and there was a second plastic tag on the trunk just below the soil surface that I didn't notice when I first potted it up. Does the "CZO" probably mean the rootstock is Carrizo?

[Millet]

Exactly

[caladri]

Looks like a tag from Treesource's liner program, I think. If so, then I believe their rootstock codes are:

C35 - C-35
CZO - Carrizo
FDG - Flying Dragon
MAC - Macrophylla
R16 - Rich 16-6
RBX - Rubidoux
VLK - Volkameriana