Author Topic: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone  (Read 19846 times)

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #325 on: May 05, 2021, 08:01:22 PM »
I just want to reiterate that Iím in this for the long haul and I expect these plants to survive. Iím trying to grow the grafted Yangmei and not the rootstock variety even though the rootstock is very likely Yangmei seedlings.

The growth coming from my rootstock was from a tree with no leaves and with some of the skinny dead branches that I was talking about and the growth is a great sign that the tree has life in it. I want every chance for the scion to survive.

Based on my personal experience grafting over a thousand trees, removing growths from below the graft Union significantly increases the odds of the scion taking.

In this case with our Yangmei, the graft union is already completely healed over so the Union is formed. Any energy wasted on the rootstock will equate to a proportional loss of energy to the scion.

Yes, it was very difficult to pinch off the new growth from the rootstock but Iím trying to grow out the superior grafted variety and not just more rootstocks. We know very little about the growth of Yangmei and we should be patient with our plants and plan for success.

Iím sure others will eventually see growths from their rootstocks as well and itís up to each individual to decide what they want to do but based on all the grafting experiments Iíve done, removing the growths below the graft union will give you the best success.

When I teach people how to graft, I tell them that the grafting is just 50% of the equation. The other 50% is the after care. If the grafting was good, the scion could still die because it was not protected during callous formation because it was exposed to sun, wasnít wrapped properly or a multitude of other factors.

One of the major mistakes that grafters make is that they donít keep up with post graft maintenance. Approximately 4-6 weeks after a graft is put on, the tree will often push new growth buds from below the graft union.

This is because the apical dominance was removed (for cleft grafts and many other types of grafts) when the branch was cut. For cherimoyas, you can have 8+ new branches that want to form really close to the graft union. I teach my friends to immediately rub off or remove the new growths as soon as they see them.

I like to have them imagine that every new rootstock branch that grows below the graft union will decrease the chances of a successful graft by about 5-10%. Of course Iím just making this up but at least they can have a figure to go by. If you donít check up on your plants for a few weeks or a month and you discover that 5 branches are growing below the graft union and each branch it 1-2 inches long, you just lost that much energy from going into the grafted scion.

In the example above, I hope you can see why successful grafts can fail or die back.

When I do volunteer grafting, I usually visit the newly grafted tree every week or two for 1-2 months to do the follow up care which includes removing new growth from below the graft union.

Simon

K-Rimes

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #326 on: May 06, 2021, 12:16:49 AM »
I've read all your stuff on mangoes and grafting Simon which is where I picked up the picking off of any new growth below the graft(s). My grafts have been seriously 100% since I followed some of your tips and some of Spaugh's on using flagging or nursery tape. I don't think I've had a single failed graft other than when I banged into them or something that was obviously my fault.

The other thing I find it helpful is, once the plant is happy and rooted, is giving it some nutrition. I really want to do this with the yangmei but will wait till I see it actively growing. I do see some signs of life on black peak and donqui now.

Maybe if only the rootstock survives, we can help some other members out with scions to restore them to their grafted type. If I get some success I am happy to help others. 

BonsaiBeast

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #327 on: May 06, 2021, 01:31:16 AM »
I've got a few hopeful buds on mine








simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #328 on: May 06, 2021, 02:58:52 AM »
Bonsaibeast, that is looking very promising. Do you have your plants in full sun?

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #329 on: May 06, 2021, 03:03:09 AM »
I've read all your stuff on mangoes and grafting Simon which is where I picked up the picking off of any new growth below the graft(s). My grafts have been seriously 100% since I followed some of your tips and some of Spaugh's on using flagging or nursery tape. I don't think I've had a single failed graft other than when I banged into them or something that was obviously my fault.

The other thing I find it helpful is, once the plant is happy and rooted, is giving it some nutrition. I really want to do this with the yangmei but will wait till I see it actively growing. I do see some signs of life on black peak and donqui now.

Maybe if only the rootstock survives, we can help some other members out with scions to restore them to their grafted type. If I get some success I am happy to help others.

The literature seems to indicate that soaking the bare root trees in very mild fertilizer with perhaps a bit of hormone may benefit bare root trees. I soaked my plants in about 200-300ppm fertilizer prior to potting them. I soaked for only about 4 hours.

Simon

FV Fruit Freak

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #330 on: May 06, 2021, 11:09:00 AM »
Iíve got tiny new buds on my Biqi. I guess the prayers are working...

Thanks for all the updates and suggestions.
Nate

beicadad

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #331 on: May 06, 2021, 11:38:52 AM »
I've got a few hopeful buds on mine








Wow they look super nice and promising! What varieties are they? You must be doing something right.

roblack

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #332 on: May 06, 2021, 12:25:31 PM »
I've got a few hopeful buds on mine








Wow they look super nice and promising! What varieties are they? You must be doing something right.

LIFE!!!!!! ...and with it, hope

ScottR

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #333 on: May 06, 2021, 04:28:46 PM »
OK. mu report I looked at my two tree's one Dongkiu which has most trunk section above graft no bud's pushing yet, the Black Peak is not as well off had to cut back trunk above graft to about 1" above graft but not giving up yet as still has many spot's where bud's can push!! finger crossed.

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #334 on: May 07, 2021, 09:55:32 AM »
The literature says that Yangmei is diocious. But I believe someone mentioned that the grafted plants will eventually produce both male and female flowers. Does anyone have more information on this?

For this reason, if your grafted scion dies, we should still try to grow out the rootstock in hopes we get a male. I believe Shane and Fang both have females so we will need a male to pollinate the females in case the Yangmei is truly diocious.

On a side note, I see little buds on all 4 of my varieties.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #335 on: May 07, 2021, 12:12:47 PM »
Yeah Simon, I plan on growing out root stock hopefully but keep hope for graft's. Yeah, I remember seeing Fang's tree's when we visited his place back when last CRFG conference was in L.A. area plus some folks on forum will have it growing later on hopefully.
Did Fang, move or something? He hasn't posted for quite some time!

beicadad

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #336 on: May 07, 2021, 01:32:15 PM »
Seller said the grafted trees should produce both male and female flowers but I am not sure how true it is. I also heard that mature grafted trees may produce both male and female flowers but I am not sure how long it takes and how likely it happens.

Therefore, one reason to perhaps keep the suckers from the seedling rootstock is to have a 50% chance to get male branches.

beicadad

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #337 on: May 07, 2021, 01:41:36 PM »


This is said to be an example of dongkui branch with both male and female flowers

roblack

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #338 on: May 07, 2021, 02:23:25 PM »
Some promising news! Catching a faint whiff of yumberries already.

Just received m. cerifera plants ordered to graft on; they should be ready in about a year or 2, LOL

BonsaiBeast

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #339 on: May 07, 2021, 07:22:49 PM »
Honestly I think its the quality of the trees more than what in doing. I had them in too much humidity and they were developing that white fluffy mold on the dead tips. So this is my new setup for now.



BonsaiBeast

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #340 on: May 07, 2021, 07:26:54 PM »
While trimming back dead branches I accidentally caught the trunk and was amazed to see green!

This was on my black peak




The earlier pictures I showed of buds were on my biqi and anhai

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #341 on: May 07, 2021, 09:47:53 PM »


This is said to be an example of dongkui branch with both male and female flowers

That is very promising if itís true!

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #342 on: May 07, 2021, 09:48:53 PM »
Yeah Simon, I plan on growing out root stock hopefully but keep hope for graft's. Yeah, I remember seeing Fang's tree's when we visited his place back when last CRFG conference was in L.A. area plus some folks on forum will have it growing later on hopefully.
Did Fang, move or something? He hasn't posted for quite some time!

Fang is still around, I think he posted on page 13 of this thread.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #343 on: May 07, 2021, 09:50:46 PM »
Honestly I think its the quality of the trees more than what in doing. I had them in too much humidity and they were developing that white fluffy mold on the dead tips. So this is my new setup for now.



That set up looks very clean and organized. Please keep us updated.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #344 on: May 08, 2021, 03:56:20 AM »
The literature says that Yangmei is diocious. But I believe someone mentioned that the grafted plants will eventually produce both male and female flowers. Does anyone have more information on this?

I still have the DongKui tree from the previous import in 2012 or so. Itís 5ft tall and wide now after I stopped trying to propagate it (which ended up slowing it down early on). It bloomed the 2nd year, then was weak and didnít bloom until about 4 years ago. A little before that all I did to it was trim any side and downward growth to make it grow more upright.

Anyway, I havenít seen any male flowers on that plant ever. This is consistent with what Yunfei said during the recent zoom talk for San Diego CRFG. Heís always said to just graft a pure male for pollen. This shouldnít be a problem with all the sexed(by DNA markers) seedlings sold by Marta at reallygoodplants.com. She said that the ratio is roughly 50% males.

I got a couple of unsexed seedlings (early on from Marta) growing which I tried to graft this year but they didnít work. Maybe theyíre too young. The grafts from the same round on californica and cerifera are looking alive so far.

The native rootstocks Iíve seen sold are all males. They actually make a few berries. I donít know if they germinate. I never was able to germinate the native Myrica seeds I bought online either. Maybe I didnít do enough scarifying to the seeds. They have a wax covering that repels water.

I donít know if I should say too much about what to do to the imported plants since we imported them when they were relatively dormant back then and this time itís during the growing season. Itís probably all in the other thread. Humidity and shade are probably still relevant for treating the bareroot shock. Iím glad you guys are trying different things. What everybodyís doing all makes sense. I think youíre giving them the best chance at surviving.

One thing I noticed for grafting is they take a long time to heal. If it starts growing within a month of grafting, itís not a good sign. Iíve had plenty of grafts that started growing early on that quickly turned brown at a couple mm long.

Potted rootstocks generally go into decline after 1 year is my experience with them. If any of them take for you guys, I recommend planting them as soon as feasible. I had a few previous grafted plants suddenly die on on me in pots. I planted all the remaining rootstocks last year so theyíre healthier when I grafted them this year. I have some grafts this year that are still looking alive. I donít want to say theyíre good until they survive the summer heat.

Thicker scions also help grafting success. I think itís just because thereís more reserve energy to last through the long healing time.

ScottR

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #345 on: May 08, 2021, 10:48:54 AM »
Simon, thanks for all your insides about growing and your experience with Yangmei plant's that sure help's us new folks with this plant. 8)

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #346 on: May 08, 2021, 06:17:34 PM »
Scott. I believe you meant to thank Fang, heís been the most successful so far aside from the Calmei folks. Iím a complete newbie when it comes to Yangmei but Iím applying the techniques Iíve learned propagating other fruit trees.

Thanks Fang for all the valuable information, we definitely need to find a male plant.

With all the plants from this group buy, we will hopefully be able to find a male from one of the rootstocks. I have more growths coming from my rootstocks so I will probably leta few grow a single branch so that it doesnít pull too much energy from the scion. We appreciate all your valuable input Fang!

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #347 on: May 08, 2021, 08:23:20 PM »
Yes, both of you Fang & Simon for your input's on growing Yangmei, Fang it's good to see you posting again either I have missed your other posts or whatever but I do know that you have most experience here besides Richard in San Diego area who had good luck with first try at growing these tree's.
I value your guy experience please keep us posted on the nuances of growing this new fruit to us anyway!!

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #348 on: May 09, 2021, 04:22:10 PM »
Hey everyone, I was thinking about it some more and from what Iíve seen in videos, Yangmei have a medium large canopy with lots of smaller branches. This species is not like mango and leaving some rootstock shoots may be a good idea because we need a male plant for pollen.

Although leaving a lot of rootstock shoots may divert energy from the grafted scions, leaving a few shoots shouldnít hurt the scion as much as compared to Mango for example.

I have at least two plants with rootstock buds popping and Iíll leave the rootstock buds for now because the top scion buds also look very good.

This is all new to me and Iím playing it by ear and we have to stay dynamic and learn as we go. Fang already has a female Dongkui so we should try to get a male so he can pollinate his flowers. If some of us are so lucky enough to keep our trees alive and get them established, we will definitely be looking for male plants.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order - trees all gone
« Reply #349 on: May 09, 2021, 06:56:16 PM »
Nothing here.
Still waiting for a sign.