Author Topic: Let's talk about theobroma  (Read 2073 times)

tru

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Let's talk about theobroma
« on: February 07, 2023, 01:03:29 PM »
everyone has their favorite genus (which btw: mine is passiflora!) but recently I've become very interested with theobroma, and noticed how small of a genus it is. There's only 20 known species of theobroma; anyone have some special ones growing in their collection?

Really enjoy taste reports too, thanks!
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Jaboticaba45

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2023, 01:09:40 PM »
I’ve tasted a few…one that was like watermelon. Elouicious, do you remember the name of this one? I believe it came from PR.
I don’t grow them just cause they need decently high humidity and temps above 50 for the most part.
Also there’s not much to eat. I did make some cacao nibs and they were pretty good. But not worth it for me to grow.

tru

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2023, 01:20:56 PM »
yeah I agree they are ridiculously finicky, not to mention they prefer full shade. I heard that you can't pull the fruit off, have to twist it because they fruit from the same spot every time. Do you know if thats true?
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brian

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2023, 01:32:24 PM »
Are people growing these for the white pith?  Or the seeds?  At least for types other than cacao (chocolate)

Bush2Beach

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2023, 01:36:12 PM »
Theobroma Bicolor likes full sun and can get 40-50ft.
Was given a small piece of homemade 50/50 macombo cacao and it was really really good.

SouthBayHapaJoe

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2023, 01:50:24 PM »
Theobromas have some of the most diverse flavors I have come across.  If they had known frost tolerance I would be push as a fruit, juice as well as Making chocolate.

The sweet and tart no funk Theobromas
Theobroma subincannum full flesh and sweet. My favorite. Called Cupui
Theobroma cacao small flesh to seed ratio but makes the best chocholate
Theobroma obovatum small hand sized fruit small seed medium flesh same flavor

The funky ones
Theobroma grandiflora Cupuasu unique flavor
Theobroma bicolor Macambo WildLandPlants loved this and likened the smell to durian.  My least favorite theobroma.  Haha
Theorbroma Sylvestre. Kind of a musty almost truffle smell and tastes creamy and like banana. My favorite of the funk and I am gonna try and grow this one out.  We only found one ripe fruit of this species.  The locals called it cupuasu aurana.

And then you have the Herranias too. Crispy and tart and then mucousy. But good.

elouicious

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2023, 01:59:26 PM »
Herrania umbricata Jabo-

Herrania are considred wild mountain Cacao-

True cacao is a relatively small genus- but I am almost certain there are undescribed species that have even been sold on this forum before

tru

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2023, 03:04:23 PM »
Theobroma Bicolor likes full sun and can get 40-50ft.
Was given a small piece of homemade 50/50 macombo cacao and it was really really good.

Very interesting! from the limited stuff I've heard I thought bicolor tastes really bad lol

And yes joe! I saw those pictures of the cupui on your website it was literally FULL. Oh and lol look at that, I guess macombo may be an acquired taste, or at least the seeds taste good once all the chemistry magic happens
 
I was gonna get cupuasu seeds earlier in the year but didn't, I debate ordering the cacao pods on etsy every now and again because I've never even tried normal cacao pods lol but one day
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tru

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2023, 03:07:16 PM »
Herrania umbricata Jabo-

Herrania are considred wild mountain Cacao-

True cacao is a relatively small genus- but I am almost certain there are undescribed species that have even been sold on this forum before

Wow how cool! Never heard of this before
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elouicious

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2023, 03:18:15 PM »
abimael on here sells the fruit on occasion- they ship well

I sprouted a bunch of seeds but I think the 18f killed them all this year

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2023, 03:21:39 PM »
abimael on here sells the fruit on occasion- they ship well

I sprouted a bunch of seeds but I think the 18f killed them all this year
Thanks for the ID. Good taste but not much flesh to eat. I couldn't get my seeds to germinate I kept them too wet.
Should've just sold them.
 Abimael is a great seller.

Daintree

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2023, 09:36:05 AM »
I have several cacao trees in my greenhouse. Love them! And yes, twist the fruit, don't pull. If you damage the cushion that is on the trunk, it won't flower at that spot again.
I have tried to sprout Herrania twice with no luck, but I do great with cacao, for some reason. I have several varieities. My big issue is I have to hand cross-pollinate by using a jewelers loop, marking each flower that got pollinated, and doing it daily for weeks.  Oh well, at least it keeps me off the streets and out of the bars!

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tru

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2023, 09:53:51 AM »
wow, the hand pollinating note got me curious and I never knew how specialized their reproductive system is. Flies only 1-4mm in length can fit inside the flower to pollinate. They even have a name for them, the "chocolate midge" lol

and thanks for the tip about twisting, I have 3 6month old seedlings, can't wait to see pods for the first time however long it may be
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TropicalFruitSeeker

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2023, 11:33:31 AM »

Herrania are considred wild mountain Cacao-


I picked up some fresh Herrania umbratica and Herrania mariae from Bryan at montoso gardens. Great seller, and ships the actual fruit so you can try them. I really liked the Umbratica taste. Lemony but also, not a very big pod .... Have one that is growing, all the other ten didn't live for me. I should have planted more but I used the rest to try and make cocoa nibs. None of the mariae I planted sprouted. I really want to grow a forastero cocoa but they look like they get big. Good to know you have some in your greenhouse Carolyn. I might try to put one in mine.

elouicious

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2023, 01:21:04 PM »
There was a user on here a while ago TomekK who had an insane collection of theobroma-

Last I remember he started school in europe though

tru

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2023, 04:58:55 PM »
do all theobroma have bark that is fuzzy for lack of a better word? like suede almost, or do they eventually grow out of it?
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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2023, 12:24:25 AM »
I have three kinds growing (T. cacao, T. bicolor, and T. grandiflorum), all planted about 3 years ago.  Some of the cacao are fruiting now but I don't yet have enough ripe to want to tackle the whole chocolate-making project.  So, for the first half-dozen, I just cracked them open and popped the seeds with pulp in my mouth, spitting them out a few seconds later.  I found there to be very little pulp -- it is a bit like tossing a tangy hard candy in your mouth and being done with it almost immediately.
An in-the-works experiment I'm currently trying is to take the cacao seeds with pulp and make cider.  I'm hoping it will taste a heck of a lot better than it looks.  If it works, I might report back.

My T. bicolor is 15 feet tall, still unbranched, with no sign of flowering. 
My T. grandiflorum plants are very slow growing, perhaps less than 3 feet tall in as many years.  Is that slow growth typical of grandiflora?

Yesterday, I was lucky enough to receive a cupuacu (T. grandiflorum) pod from a friend and tasted it for the first time.  The very hard pod had lots and lots of pulp, both on and between the seeds.  I could not finish it in one sitting.  My better half did not care for the taste, but I quite enjoyed the sweet/tart combination.  The theobromine and caffeine probably served as a little pick-me-up afterwards.

Chris

Finca La Isla

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2023, 08:36:32 AM »
A theobroma with very nice tasting pulp is t. gileri.

Twisting the fruits off is a chore, why not simply clip them off with pruning cutters?

I have a collection of about 5 herranias. The fruits might be useful but I really cultivate them for the wonder flowers, truly spectacular.
Peter

happyhana

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2023, 09:22:08 PM »
I have three kinds growing (T. cacao, T. bicolor, and T. grandiflorum), all planted about 3 years ago.  Some of the cacao are fruiting now but I don't yet have enough ripe to want to tackle the whole chocolate-making project.  So, for the first half-dozen, I just cracked them open and popped the seeds with pulp in my mouth, spitting them out a few seconds later.  I found there to be very little pulp -- it is a bit like tossing a tangy hard candy in your mouth and being done with it almost immediately.
An in-the-works experiment I'm currently trying is to take the cacao seeds with pulp and make cider.  I'm hoping it will taste a heck of a lot better than it looks.  If it works, I might report back.

Report back either way, sounds delicious.

Have you tried miel? If you like the pulp, you’ll love miel. The aromatic juice is collected from batches of fermenting seeds, so concentrated and amazing.

tru

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2023, 09:33:06 PM »
It's a pretty long watch but this guy is a chemist and made chocolate, his end result is pretty amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaCZcdWk1DU
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TropicalFruitSeeker

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2023, 09:36:23 PM »
@HappyHana, how do you make the miel de cacao? I looked everywhere on the internet but didn't see anything.

happyhana

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2023, 12:25:19 PM »
The aromatic juice is collected from batches of fermenting seeds, so concentrated and amazing.

tru

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2023, 12:27:41 PM »
I think the miel is this part right here right https://youtu.be/IaCZcdWk1DU?t=483
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HI_Chris

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2023, 06:45:49 PM »
OK, ready to report on first batch of 'cider'.  Short version:  refreshing and I'll try it again.

For those of you with patience, the full report follows.
The 'cider' seems to be made like miel (if I understand miel correctly).  Chief differences appear to be that some water and spices are added at beginning, it is decanted earlier, and the yield is higher.
I loosely followed a recipe in One Cacao Tree, by Raven Hanna.  In addition to providing steps for small-scale chocolate making, she has quite a few cacao recipes for products that don't require all the preparation steps needed for chocolate.
Roughly speaking:  Almost fill a sterile two-quart mason jar with pulpy seeds, add spices, cover with some water, loosely close and then wait about 3 days.  If no mold, decant.
I observed the expected yeasty reaction -- lots of small bubbles.  After 3 days decanted about 1 1/2 cups of lightly-colored liquid.  Chilled in fridge.  Result was refreshing, tangy and bubbly like a cider just going hard.  Unfortunately, the 4" long piece of cinnamon that I had put in the bottle did overwhelm any subtler flavors that may have been hiding.
I'll be trying it again, with less cinnamon, some time later.  And I might be motivated to try something with the under-fermented seeds, which I just tossed away the first round.
-- Chris

Bush2Beach

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Re: Let's talk about theobroma
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2023, 10:07:22 AM »
Nice, thanks for the flavor report.