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Messages - EricSC

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: December 08, 2021, 07:27:31 PM »
sc4001992 and Millet,

Yes,  Gibberellic Acid can be sprayed for more production. It can be purchased from Amazon or Ebay.

I looked web for Nules' info but could not find much.  Yes it is a mutation from Fina but not as sweet as Fina.  For Nules, I guess the followings may still be needed:
1, provent bees to pollinate
2, manage the alternative bearing (it is one of clementine's problem).

If it shows better quality and performance, will gradually replace all the clementine branches by Nules.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: December 07, 2021, 11:11:48 PM »

The trees I have are Algerian clementine, the original variety.   I just grafted some Clemenules  on them but don't expect too much difference.  I also grafted Pixie and Xie Shan on them.

The fruits ripe at or after Christmas but can hang on tree much longer than  Satsuma fruits do.   They taste richer (or more tasty) than Satsuma,  same or sweeter than Satsuma because they can hang on tree longer without baggy or dry.   The skin are thin and easily be peeled.   The inner sections are easily separated with tender cell which don't get tough.   The people tasted both all prefer clementine.

The drawbacks:
The fruits will have a lot of seeds if bees help pollinations.   If cross pollinated, the fruits will have the tastes and seeds from the pollen.  (you can use it to develop new varieties)
If not cross pollinated, the tree bears fewer fruits.   Commercially, chemicals are sprayed to increase the fruits bearing.
Leaf miner really love this tree.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: December 07, 2021, 06:46:14 PM »

Photo 1 is the ten years old unknown Satsuma.  The fruits are flat and still some sour taste.

Photo 2 is a fruits on a small Owari Frost Satsuma tee.  The tree had about ten fruits in early summer but they were removed.   The fruits generally are bland.  I used it to graft other varieties.

Photo 3 are fruits on a Clementine tree.  To get seedless fruits, bees have to be kept off.   Without cross pollination, it produce fewer but good fruits.  The fruits have somehow richer but different flavors than Satsuma with tender segment. 

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: December 07, 2021, 12:24:32 AM »

I have a ten years old unknown Satsuma tree.  This years' fruits are flat just like yours.   They are all still have sour taste probably due to warm weather.


Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: November 28, 2021, 11:32:27 PM »

Very nice pictures and comparison.  It is great to hear that your Xie Shan get 1.

It is a surprise that the Kiyomi fruits are so small.   On paper, they should be about 200 gm or more.

For the taste and ripe time, Kiyomi is about Feb-Mar, about the same as Sumo.  So, if you can do in again in Feb, you may get better numbers.

If you keep Kiyomi flowers off from bees, you might get seedless fruits.

For Sumo, are these tree fruits from the same graft?  The fruits usually don't get that much seeds.   The seedy one looks more like a Kiyomi fruit.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: November 27, 2021, 07:09:43 PM »

I also notice fruit sizes of Satsuma family vary a lot.   

In an on-year, you get a lot of fruits but most of them are small.  In an off-year, for the same tree, you will get fewer but much bigger fruits.

Even on a same tree for the same year, you will get some fruits much bigger than others. 

The bigger fruits tend to be baggy and a little dryer with tougher inner cell and thick rind.   

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: November 24, 2021, 11:55:32 PM »
I have a small Okitsu tree which had 5-6 fruits (I stripped about 20 of them in early summer).   They are yellow now and taste about same sweet as Satsuma's fruits but much less sour.  Most Satsuma fruits still have some sour but many feel that was good.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: November 24, 2021, 07:52:38 PM »

How are your Xie Shan, Kiyomi, Sumo, Ponkan, etc all doing?   Any new update of taste evaluation?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« on: November 07, 2021, 01:54:36 PM »
I had a Kishu tree which some of its fruits often have some knots. 
Wow, I have never seen a Kishu fruit with a bump on the neck like that. I grow 2-3 Kishu trees and they all do not have that neck. Very interesting Kishu tree your neighbor has.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Is this HLB?
« on: November 02, 2021, 01:09:14 PM »
Photos are not seen

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« on: November 01, 2021, 11:25:18 PM »
Dec-Jan could be too early.   Sumo might be like gold nugget which can hang on tree for several months.   I had gold nugget fruits picked in June.  The longer they hang, they taste sweeter. But it may cause the tree alternative bearing.

Eric, it will be interesting to taste the fruits of my newer grafts from 2020 and the older grafts from 2017. I will try to wait until Dec-Jan to do the taste test but I think the 2020 grafted fruits will fall off before Dec.

I have so many citrus varieties that it could be a sport, all my trees are multi-grafted with more than 10 varieites each so you never know. I have an excellent tasting satsuma I call "unk#1" which has small bumpy skin, peels easy, very sweet with a little tartness. It even tastes better now than my Xie Shen fruits, its the one that had 24 fruits on the small grafted branch that I grafted back in 2017 and lost the tag.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« on: November 01, 2021, 01:53:55 PM »

Your photos are great. As you said, my fruits should be Sumo, which I grafted in 2020 with CCPP's bud.

Also interesting that you have the "flat" Sumo, which we never saw before.  Maybe you accidently developed a new variety ?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Is this a Sumo fruit? - Photos are added
« on: October 31, 2021, 06:52:51 PM »

Photos of 5 fruits are added.   Two of them have the seeable traces of neck.   It was grafted to a mature gold nugget tree.

Citrus General Discussion / Is this a Sumo fruit?
« on: October 30, 2021, 07:03:57 PM »
Is this a Sumo fruit?  Note that it does not have the typical little neck Sumo Fruits usually have.

I grafted the CCPP's bud to a Gold Nugget tree in last summer.   It grow into a small branch and produced 5 fruits in this year.   They are all the same size, pretty much a Washington orange size now.   What puzzled me is that none of them have the typical Sumo neck.

Do you Sumo fruits like this?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: October 19, 2021, 05:51:30 PM »
Looks that you have a lot of fruit lovers in your yard.

For Satsuma fruits, we noticed they have a process like this so picking up times make big differences:
first they change color and get sweet with sour and tartness,
then they become less sour and less tartness (or sweeter),
then they start becoming soft and a little dry but not sweeter,
They start baggy but not sweet.

Ok, thanks for you comments Malhar and Jim. Maybe I better try to cover my last Xie Shan fruits with metal mesh and try to wait until they all turn bright orange. I might be picking them to soon still. I will do this today and wait like you guys until it is fully orange (2-3 wks).

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: October 18, 2021, 05:02:45 PM »

Are your Xie Shan fully ripe? Did you have change to reevaluate it? 

I grafted some on late Aug and looks they are taken this time.

Just tasted the second Xie Shan fruit I picked. It does not have hardly any acidic/tart flavor, but it is sweet without being bland. My unkown satsuma was just like other satsuma in taste with a little tartness but not as sweet. This Xie Shan is not fully ripe but it tastes better than many ripe satsuma.


Out of 6 very thin seeds I found from 10 Orri fruits, I got two very thin and weak baby plants .  They eventually dried out in the hot summer.   One web article mentioned FL has the plants for sale from a nursery but no one in CA yet.   
Here's my taste test update as of 9-26-21:

1a) Orri (Israel)- sweetest of them all
1b) Sumo/Shiranui - sweet and little tart
2) Xie Shan -still did not taste a fully ripe one, only green/yellow so far
3) Gold Nugget
4) Ponkan
5) Honey mandarin (VI-133)
6) Tango

Still did not get to taste the Yosemite Gold which I hear is also excellent, maybe next year, Johnny where would you rate the taste?

EricSC, thanks for the heads up on the Orri, I saw them last weekend at the market so got a dozen to eat, very good, consistent flavor.
When you planted some of the seeds from Orri, were they kinda on the small side? I did find some small seeds in a few fruits from the dozen fruits I ate.

Lovetoplant, here's an update on your question, "which is the sweetest", the answer now is Orri.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: CCPP budwood order
« on: September 27, 2021, 06:53:29 PM »

My Washington fruits are very tasty and flavorful when picked at right time.  But if you let them sit on desk for a week, they will taste just like those from supermarket.

I don't grow the Washington navel so can't make the comparison side by side. It's much sweeter than store bought Washington navel, also larger and easy to peel.

brian and sc4001992,

I have a productive GN so can tell what I have.

GN fruits can stay on tree as long as you like, sure they get sweeter when kept on tree longer.  I picked the last one in middle June with no puffiness.   They always juicy and fresh. 

Yes, they can taste like "sugar water" with no tartness, or sourness, etc.   When compared, GN can be sweeter than if the fruits stay on tree long enough, but less flavorful than satsuma or clementine (But the preference to what flavors can be individually different. ). Yes, I would agree that if a "rich" taste is preferred, GN is not.  When compared, I would think Sumo would be better.  I heard Pixie is also very good.

I have tasted supermarket Irro and agree it should at least the same as or better than Sumo.

For the skin, if the fruits get very big, they usually gets the very bumpy rough skin.


How Shasta Gold is compared with gold nugget?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: tanglefoot direct application experiment
« on: September 08, 2021, 07:54:34 PM »
Local and short-distance dispersal of mealybugs is facilitated by air currents, ant movements, farm labourers and farm implements. Long-range dispersal/movement of mealybugs is usually accomplished by transport of infested plant material.

Spider mites would do the same.

Tanglefoot works great against ants, but is useless at stopping mealybug and spider mites.  I was thinking maybe they were re-infesting from the ground after I sprayed the trees, but they must be coming from eggs in the trees because I never saw any stuck in the tanglefoot.

Shaneatwell, glad you reported your experience.  Despite the seeming safety of this I am still a bit wary of trying it on other species.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Are these leaf minor eggs?
« on: September 08, 2021, 07:46:57 PM »
Do you spray the Neem oil all the summer-fall until cool?
Thanks, There are butterflys fluttering around the citrus all day.  The bird dropping caterpillars have had their share of leaves and even some rather large brown weevils attacked the PT leaves this year.  But the leaf minors aggravate me the most. They sneak up on me when ever I fall behind on the neem oil.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: August 27, 2021, 08:05:57 PM »


Will be interested to hear your follow up evaluation of the Xie Shan fruits.

Satsuma fruits change taste during the ripe period.  My Satsuma fruits start to ripe with funny taste in November (but one of my Japanese friends believed it was perfect), then gradually get sweeter.  By end of Dec and Jan, start baggy and drying but not sweeter.

Mine is also holding too many fruits.  My tree is probably a bad example, though, as it has always been rather unhealthy.  I have noticed that the corner of the greenhouse it is planted in often has standing water from poor drainage, I am thinking that is the reason.

Anyway, they look pretty ripe so I picked one.  It is very tasty, but pretty much identical to Tango in my opinion.  Probably not fair to judge a small tree like this.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: August 27, 2021, 07:57:07 PM »
I did notice the satsuma fruit shape/skin/size change with tree ages and yields.

In low yield years: get  fewer but big fruits.   The tend to have thick and rough skin.   
In a high yield years:   get a lot but small fruits.   They tend to have thin and smooth skin.
(This is more common in gold nugget tangerine tree.  You can see gold nugget tangerine fruits with very different shape / sinks in CA supermarkets).
In some cases, the  very big fruits are dry inside.   It is often seen for fruits from small/young trees.

My satsuma tree had the fruits with little neck in early years, but not now.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Last year for my xie shan
« on: August 27, 2021, 07:39:49 PM »

Great news, Congratulation.   It is great to hear your good news.

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