Using electrical tape to ensure tight graft union: good idea?

[K-Rimes]

Would it matter if I saved a buck and got the pink roll instead?

Color doesn't matter - just make sure it's nursery variety.

[spaugh]

I ordered a roll of the nursery specific stuff just to compare it to their "Texas brand 1-3/16" stuff.  The nursery stuff is only half an inch and doesn't stretch as well.  I dont think I'll switch over to using it but it will still work well.  Its definitely the same tape atkins nursery in Fallbrook is using. 

If you want a little stronger stuff its the presco Texas brand. 

[weiss613]

Just a few remarks.
To say to Bsbullie “stop being negative” is wrong. You should give him respect because he has earned it and be glad he is here to help. Guess what? The other day he commented on my comments and my feelings/ego was hurt but I thought about it and didn’t take it personal and realized he was expressing his opinion and it made sense what he said. Anyone who has taken his advice over the years is way ahead of the game.
One more thing and I hate to say it but anyone who claims 100% success rate on more than 20 contiguous grafts is probably full of baloney. A success rate on mango grafting of 85% is spectacular and needs perfect cuts and perfect attaching plus a few other factors that we can’t control like infections and weather. 

[John B]

Just a few remarks.
To say to Bsbullie “stop being negative” is wrong. You should give him respect because he has earned it and be glad he is here to help. Guess what? The other day he commented on my comments and my feelings/ego was hurt but I thought about it and didn’t take it personal and realized he was expressing his opinion and it made sense what he said. Anyone who has taken his advice over the years is way ahead of the game.
One more thing and I hate to say it but anyone who claims 100% success rate on more than 20 contiguous grafts is probably full of baloney. A success rate on mango grafting of 85% is spectacular and needs perfect cuts and perfect attaching plus a few other factors that we can’t control like infections and weather.

If you hate to say something, don't say it.  . I assume you're referring to my post about my grafting success? Well, yes, I've been fortunate. I'm new to tropical fruit, not new to gardening. I never mentioned mangoes. My grafts trust took were all cherimoya and citrus. All cleft grafts. Mild CALIFORNIA winter.

Also, as mentioned, they were this past year, so all relatively new. So I suppose there is still there chance of failure after the tape is off. But, the purpose was about the tape used. I'm hopeful to get 6 more cherimoya scions, so we'll see if the streak continues.

Also as mentioned, I am not "experienced" and consider myself a lifelong student. I've shared my mistakes and ask for help. With that said, if you want to send me some mango scions, I will gladly top work a couple of my trees and see how well I fair. 

Back to the point, I don't think electrical tape is messy when applied over flagging tape. But I dont need to worry about replicating 100's of grafts. If that were the case, better options have been mentioned.

[Plantinyum]

I have always grafted with electrical tape, also doing it this spring. However now I am using a transparent strech type first, and then the white electrical.
I am not a big grafter and have done only a few grafts at a time ,and have used only electrical tape, with very good success. I think it could be used solo, and when its clear that the graft has took and has grown some u could just cut the electrical tape , like make a straight cut without removing it, when the wound starts to heal and expand , the tape should release itself alone. That is just my theory and I havent tried it , by now...

[buddy roo]

electrical tape has 2 sides, try using it backwards and it will not stick to the tree but will stink to its self

[weiss613]

First I am referring to mango grafts only. Second is scion selection which is that the thinner more green the more flexible it is. This means that when you have such a scion and you slice off a side to attach to a branch it will be so flexible that it should attach to the branch side with very little pressure. Not in every situation but in most strong pressure shouldn’t be needed if one chooses a young thin flexible scion. In most of these cases you might need to twist the Buddy tape near the top of the graft to hold it down better because twisting it allows much stronger pressure. But before doing this one must hold the separated sides together then hold it with the twisted tape. And sometimes a small clothes pin will hold the top snuggly but gently. To me using electrical tape means you are putting a square peg in a circle.
Give this video a little time to load up. PS I am sorry but if anyone says their grafting success rate is 100% I just don’t think that’s possible unless your sample number is very low.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0PFcax_I4VUWPJPhsM8BVS2Lw

[MANGOSCOPE]

I am a grafting newbie and have only just started to have some success.  I love using buddy tape to prevent from bagging the scions...and I love how you can see it pushing without unwrapping.  The problem is that I am a little clumsy and it is difficult to wrap the union tight enough, especially with buddy tape.  I got some green tape from Adam a while back and it seemed to work well, but I would prefer something that will hold the tightness initially while I try to neaten up the rest of the wrap. 

My thinking is that black electrical tape would work well for the union part and then I could use buddy tape to wrap the scion to prevent water getting in/scion from drying out.

Is this a bad idea?

Go!

Parafilm works for me from Amazon.

[spaugh]

I top worked this mango tree and only used flagging tape on the unions.  Works fine, comes off easier, costs less, and pulls tighter than grafting tapes.  For the scion part it gets 1 layer of buddy tape. 

[MANGOSCOPE]

I top worked this mango tree and only used flagging tape on the unions.  Works fine, comes off easier, costs less, and pulls tighter than grafting tapes.  For the scion part it gets 1 layer of buddy tape. 

Grafting union is more prone to sweat with flagging tape or any other vinyl material. It one of the major cause of grafting failure.  Buddy tape is expensive and very close to parafilm at a lower price. Definitely, buddy tape is more stretchy, conveniently, precut and available as perforated and non-perforated versions. One can tie the union first with a rubber band lightly to secure the joint, then cover it with either buddy tape or parafilm. People tie the grafting union with vinyl tape tightly where both cambium layers crush. This is another pitfall to have a successful graft get going.
Once the graft is taken parafilm can be taken off easily. Often, it disintigrates/peels on its own. I've a very high success rate though..

[spaugh]

parafilm dries out and cracks and causes graft failure in CA where humidity is in the single digits. 

Ive done hundreds of grafts with parafilm, buddy, tape, flagging tape and combos of the 3.

For stone fruit I use parafilm, for everything else the scion gets buddy tape.  And I have no use for either on the graft unions.  Flagging tape is much easier to remove and has the perfect amount of stretch to keep grafts tight.

I was putting grafting tape on unions and then flagging tape over to pull tight but lately just skip the gradting tape on the union and grafts are just as successful.

Of course everyone is free to do as they please Im just sharing my experience. 

[MANGOSCOPE]

I'm also sharing my experience and cost effectiveness. No need to argue or to prove who superior in arguments. In India, they don't have access to buddy tape/parafilm in the nursery trades but still they've over 90% of success. My parafilm cracks within 6-8 weeks. I don't need more time for my grafts to take. If your humidity doesn't support, you have the liberty to take other measures. 

[John B]

I'm also sharing my experience and cost effectiveness. No need to argue or to prove who superior in arguments. In India, they don't have access to buddy tape/parafilm in the nursery trades but still they've over 90% of success. My parafilm cracks within 6-8 weeks. I don't need more time for my grafts to take. If your humidity doesn't support, you have the liberty to take other measures.

Pretty sure Brad was sharing his experience for the benefit of others.

Half way through this year, I switched to using buddy tape around the graft union with a rubber band to hold it together. My take rate was lower because the "buddy" tape was not as breathable as it was marketed to be and some rotted from being too wet. This never happened with my stretchy flagging tape. I'm going back to flagging tape on the union and probably a rubber band instead of electrical tape.

[spaugh]

I'm also sharing my experience and cost effectiveness. No need to argue or to prove who superior in arguments. In India, they don't have access to buddy tape/parafilm in the nursery trades but still they've over 90% of success. My parafilm cracks within 6-8 weeks. I don't need more time for my grafts to take. If your humidity doesn't support, you have the liberty to take other measures.

Sorry I wasnt trying to be argumentative at all.  Tone is lost over the internet.  The only point Im trying to get accross is that theres no issues with moisture loss with the flagging tape.   If there was I would have seen it by now.  But everytime I remove the stuff, the unions are wet just like with other grafting tapes. 

They also sell plain "grafting tapes" on amazon and ebay that doesnt stick like parafilm or buddy tape.  I havent used it but some friends use that instead of parafilm or buddy tape because it comes off easier as well.

Im a big fan of the buddy tape, but the stuff is a nightmare to remove.  Especially if you are doing a lot of grafting.  I spent way too much time doing tape removals this year and dont want to repeat next year.

[BayTropics]

I am a grafting newbie and have only just started to have some success.  I love using buddy tape to prevent from bagging the scions...and I love how you can see it pushing without unwrapping.  The problem is that I am a little clumsy and it is difficult to wrap the union tight enough, especially with buddy tape.  I got some green tape from Adam a while back and it seemed to work well, but I would prefer something that will hold the tightness initially while I try to neaten up the rest of the wrap. 

My thinking is that black electrical tape would work well for the union part and then I could use buddy tape to wrap the scion to prevent water getting in/scion from drying out.

Is this a bad idea?

Go!

Here's my grafts. Electrical tape works great. To be honest seedlings are the easiest to graft on. Older trees can be hit or miss. You got to bag the grafts in plastic bags and tie them to keep water out.

[MANGOSCOPE]

I'm also sharing my experience and cost effectiveness. No need to argue or to prove who superior in arguments. In India, they don't have access to buddy tape/parafilm in the nursery trades but still they've over 90% of success. My parafilm cracks within 6-8 weeks. I don't need more time for my grafts to take. If your humidity doesn't support, you have the liberty to take other measures.

Sorry I wasnt trying to be argumentative at all.  Tone is lost over the internet.  The only point Im trying to get accross is that theres no issues with moisture loss with the flagging tape.   If there was I would have seen it by now.  But everytime I remove the stuff, the unions are wet just like with other grafting tapes. 

They also sell plain "grafting tapes" on amazon and ebay that doesnt stick like parafilm or buddy tape.  I havent used it but some friends use that instead of parafilm or buddy tape because it comes off easier as well.

Im a big fan of the buddy tape, but the stuff is a nightmare to remove.  Especially if you are doing a lot of grafting.  I spent way too much time doing tape removals this year and dont want to repeat next year.

I definitely, understand the moisture issue once the parafilm cracks. If it dries out , graft will fail. But as I stated in my earlier thread  that I do have a 6-8 weeks window for that parafilm to crack. By that time, most of my grafts will be taken.  Once, it is taken I only take out the rubber band. Most of times that one layer of parafilm peels off/ disintegrates on its own with the aid of intense Florida heat. Sometimes, with the continual growth of the scion in it's thickness parafilm doesn't stay.  But my observation with vinyl/flagging tape is that lot of the times the union part sweats which invites fungus, then it turns black and graft fails. I'm not against  buddy tape or parafilm.
 Lot of the times cambium layers aren't aligned when people try to secure the joint with vinyl/flagging tape or anything when they can't see the union because that is their  final tie. If you tie the union with a rubber band putting moderate contractions, watch both cambium layers aligned then you go for wrapping with a single buddy tape/parafilm . I'd go with a single piece of grafting material starting 1-2" below the joint, wrapping grafting union then proceed towards the tip of scion after I secure the union with rubber band. I never go with 2 steps as you tie the union with vinyl/flagging tape then cover scion with buddy tape.
As I mentioned before, buddy tape is expensive compared to parafilm. I don't mind putting anyone as a single layer covering the whole union and the scion instead of going part  vinyl and part buddy tape. Please don't get me wrong, I'm trying to make myself clear.