Author Topic: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions  (Read 1301 times)

Ellocot

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Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« on: July 24, 2023, 09:14:49 PM »
I'm gonna to move a semi discussion from elsewhere to start.

A friend said that this sorta talk might be well more received here.




I've been considering growing some stuff.


I live in Zone 8b now.


Asimina is a very interesting genus.


And living in Zone 8B opens up breeding options.


Asimina triloba is probably the most well known Pawpaw species.


There are also Pawpaws endemic to small areas in Florida.


There's also other Pawpaws, sure.



Now, why would I want to breed with small fruited species?


Well, some species have large flowers for one.



Another thing? I'm living in Zone 8B. Warmer areas, aren't as suitable for Pawpaws due to chill requirements. I'm probably pushing it on the chill hours here.

But then there's the Florida species, that are seen as growable only in zones 8 or higher.


And, many of these species are pollinated by wasps and butterflies. Asimina triloba is more or less only pollinated by beetles, if I remember correctly. And they don't smell too lovely.


Some species grow in partial shade or full sun.

Some are small shrubs.


Some handle drought pretty well, and grow on rocky soil.



Not all plant breeders focus on things other than disease resistances or flavor.



I happen to know that a lot of people may be more open to growing Pawpaws with flowers that smell nicer, and feed butterflies.


I for one think that having beetles to pollinate flowers is beneficial, as some years may have lower bee populations or other issues.

Plus I have a plan to grow Ficus species that are pollinated by beetles, next to Asimina triloba - not all figs are hardy where Pawpaws are usually grown.

Beetles would more than likely learn that there's even more food next to their other food - these would also have rotting scents / odors to them.


Anyways, bit off topic but I will say that there's reasonings as to why I wouldn't wanna change up the flowering stuff too much.

Triloba flowers remind me of some Asarum species to an extent, dunno if there's a special formula there for attracting some insects.


With Asarum caudatum and canadense, the flowers are the same reddish / burgundy as Asimina triloba, and they give off a rotting sort of odor. The flowers supposedly resemble the color of rotting flesh.

So. There's that. I'd probably grow some Asarum plants next to the base of Pawpaws, as a fun experiment or test.




But wait, there's more!


I'm in Zone 8B. This means I can technically grow Cherimoya - Annona cherimola.


A lot of places say it'll only grow in Zone 10 - 11, but may not have proper chill periods in Zone 11.


It'll actually grow in Zone 8, but substain frost damage sometimes.

It's well suited for Zone 9 - 10.


Annona species don't seem to all have chill periods. Cherimoya does, and there's hybrids out there with other species. They seem to readily hybridize with other species.



Now, there's an issue in California with growing Cherimoya.


It's more than likely pollinated by a small beetle, not found in California.


If only there happened to be a native species in the Annonaceae, native to North America that happened to be pollinated by small beetles and could be baited into pollinating nearby Cherimoya trees for one or two years, just long enough for the beetles to realize they can visit those top.


Oh, wait! Yeah.


I know of people in California who grow Pawpaws - not a ton of people do so. It actually does well in some areas.

I also know people in California who grow Cherimoya.


I don't know many people who grow Cherimoya and Pawpaws, side by side. The usual reasoning seems to be that one fruit takes longer to spoil, and doesn't thrive - plus the taste varies too much, even in varieties. The other has larger fruits and can be sold in markets.


Fair enough.


Cherimoya and Asimina crosses have been attempted.


They tend to fail. These are usually people shipping pollen back and forth, or from a greenhouse to outdoors.


Annona hybrids and Asimina hybrids, may be more compatible.


I'm quite interested in another genus since a researcher friend somewhere, told me something about funding (friends sometimes ask me for ideas or opinions on things, so I have a weird circle of friends who like weird plants).


Duguetia.


In the Annonaceae. My friend told me that Duguetia was very compatible with Asimina and Annona species.

I didn't get much information in terms of in what direction. The friend pretty much said they were approved for talking about this, as it didn't go anywhere.

But, it was simple donations of pollen.


They lost approval from funders of their research and moved onto different things, because they told people how long it would take to commercialize and breed things.

Appears they didn't like the answer.


I didn't get any Duguetia names for the exact species, I was told that it didn't seem to matter.


Meiogyne cylindrocarpa and Uvaria littoralis also exist. I was told "dunno" when I asked about these. Which I guess he did pretty much say they only worked with some Genera.


But, if I'm growing some Duguetia in pots for fruits and flowers. Yes, I'm going to grow other species in the Annonaceae.


Unfortunately, finding any public information on this isn't doable.


Unless you paid for access or know someone who's 100% allowed to say whatever.




Duguetia was seen as a possible bridge species in these cases as well - that's my main point here.


They brought up how there could be incompatibilities if they try first generation crosses crossed into another species - maybe the same barriers that the parents had. Or they said that Duguetia has some unpleasant traits, and that breeding F1s together would mean that they'd probably end up with something very similar to a Duguetia.

It also probably wouldn't be frost hardy.

Their goal would've been a frost hardy Annona.


Breeding takes time. Their bosses and whoever knew that. But, their assumed or projected periods for when they'd have something marketable. It wasn't something that people liked to see or hear.


They'd need trials in different areas that get frost.

It's likely that a lot of people wouldn't buy the fruits.

They'd be pricey due to the years of work that went into them.

People may try saving seeds for them.

The fruit would need to last long and taste good.

People would probably look at the fruit as a genetic monster in a lot of places.

People wouldn't be familiar with it in colder regions and just never touch it.



I'm 23.

I can get some breeding done. But I'd have to make 100% sure that it actually works in crosses with anything mentioned since it's hard to physically verify.



I'm also trying to think of why I wouldn't have heard of Duguetia x Annona crosses, they should overlap sometimes or be grown near each other.

One issue could be that species that overlap, may have different pollinators.

Or, people don't save seeds too often / get rid of off type / weird stuff.


Or, Duguetia has to be the mother, and crosses are rare and intermix into other Duguetia.



Honestly, I think it's worth a shot to grow these and figure out if it actually works.


If it does, I could try and see if mixing an Asimina x Duguetia and Annona x Duguetia would even give me fertile plants.

My friend said they never got that far, and used their plots for other stuff. I think it was eggplants?



If I wanted to do this properly, I'd need to cross Duguetia more than once into some of these - plus cross things back to other parents.

Maybe?


Asimina x Duguetia mixed into Annona x Duguetia, may not even work further down the line.

I doubt there's barriers. If the crosses take, I think they'd be fine and be able to produce flowers.


That was another reason that the project was scrapped earlier on.



When I start this project myself, I won't have any results for awhile.


My current research and things, seems to indicate that Pawpaw seedlings being shipped in from wherever, tend to just die.

They're usually from nurseries in the North, and too many reports mention that they die off in the South.

Other reports say that growing them from seed, and leaving the plants where they will be planted is the best way to start them further down south.


Southern cultivars or specimens also seem to work.

Those are also, harder to obtain.



It's also entirely possible that I need specific Asimina accessions or that I need Self compatible plants.


I don't think I do. But, if I'm going based on word of mouth from a friend, it's probably best to grow multiple accessions of Asimina species.



The other large trouble, was that there aren't many places you can even grow Duguetia in the United States (yeah, not the best place for Duguetia hybrid experiments). And the places that you can, they didn't have fields or anything. They could buy land.

But, their bosses would need to approve some stuff. It would need to be in a place that is large enough and suitable for Duguetia / Annona species grown outdoors, because they wanted to grow multiple species and things just to make sure future fertility in lines was assured.

And, they said that Pawpaws are grown outdoors, and that they couldn't have everything grown in greenhouses constantly.

Wouldn't do well for tests, and could complicate things.


I was told that pollen was being shipped some distances in chilled containers or something.



But yeah. I'm in a "Well, if that's even possible I'd like to try that out a bit."

Zone 8b, isn't a bad place to try that sorta stuff out.


If I managed to get F1 seed in both Asimina and Annona, that's all I'd need.


If it doesn't work, I would still be able to cross Asimina species, which I'd do anyways.



I'm unsure if this interests anyone. But, it seems like fun. By fun, I mean mostly a hobby at first.


I'm going to be growing some other trees. These poor little Pawpaws will have their shade and partial shade.




Some researcher friends said they tell me about stuff and whatnot, because I tend to have good ideas and think outside the box.


Asarum species of some types came to mind when talking about Asimina triloba and its flowers and scent.

There's convergent evolution between these groups, in my opinion.

Small reddish / burgundy flowers which smell of flesh and attract small flies or beetles, very similarly sized flowers and shape.



Plus the thing with Annona cherimola and some figs.

Either grow Asimina triloba and Annona cherimola in a way that they'll self graft, or graft them another way.

Or try the rotting meat trick on both species and see if anything happens.

Or try dying some Annona cherimola flowers red.


Some friends saw my post somewhere, and asked me to elaborate more.


I'd ideally make a dye with Asimina triloba flowers and then freeze them or refrigerate them.

Hopefully, it's lovely smelling flowers would stay intact with their chemical compounds.


Then I'd ideally paint or somehow soak Annona cherimola flowers in the dye.


My reasoning, was that my neighbors wouldn't appreciate me hanging dead carrion like others have tried before, to attract pollinators.


Plus, if I can attract Pawpaw pollinators to Annona cherimola, for even a year or two - flies and beetles should learn that these flowers exist, and flock to them.


I'd plant Asarum species as groundcovers around the Pawpaws, they also seem fine in the shade.

Asarum species also have some pollination issues at times.


Having both Asarum and Asimina triloba growing together, would probably give me even more pollinators.

It's probably possible to breed a non toxic Asarum that's usable as a completely non toxic ginger substitute.



This is also apart of why I would say that perhaps a large burgundy flowered, nice smelling Asimina triloba hybrid, may not be ideal. Or a large not so good smelling specimen may not be ideal.


Annona cherimola flowers, are frankly possibly not seen as flowers or as a food source for beetles that go to Asimina triloba flowers. They look pretty different.





Now, onto the fun stuff.

I've purchased some pre / semi stratified Tammy Pawpaw seeds. These are supposedly from a tree that could possibly be self pollinating / self fertile to some degree, much like Sunflower.

Asimina parviflora - over 5 seeds, rather pricey.

Asimina obovata - 50 seeds.

Annona senegalensis / African custard-apple - I bought some fresh seeds since its supposedly native to Africa. Hybrids of another Annona from elsewhere, would be fun to try out.


Annona sylvatica - From Brazil.

Duguetia lanceolata / Pindaiba.

Duguetia peruviana.

Cananga odorata - Ylang Ylang.

Meiogyne cylindrocarpa - Fingersop.


I should be getting Cherimoya seeds too.



But yeah. Someone said that this stuff would be better appreciated here.

Ellocot

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2023, 09:58:37 PM »
I'm aware that most of these need to be grown in pots.

Some species I'm just going to grow as extra experiments.

I've read of Annona x Asimina hybrid experiments but I've only heard of Duguetia x Asimina / Annona in private sectors, and those seemed to work or at least produce viable seed.


The Duguetia and Annonas were pricey seeds, and they should be moist / fairly fresh.

Epicatt2

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2023, 12:16:31 PM »
I'm aware that most of these need to be grown in pots.

Some species I'm just going to grow as extra experiments.

The problem with Asiminas is their extremely long taproot which, if disturbed when replanting, often casues the decline or failure of the plant.

Just FWIW . . . .

Paul M.
==

Ellocot

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2023, 05:04:51 PM »
Thanks for the advice.

I've read of this issue elsewhere on other sites as well.

I've read that plants from popular online sellers are typically moved from plugs into larger pots or they don't get deep waterings.

Southern growers usually report that the taproot is a bit spindly, and isn't going down straight / deep.


Most successful reports of people growing Pawpaws in Zone 8B - 10, are of those who took cuttings of local trees or planted their own seeds and grew them in the place where they'd eventually be planted.

From what I can tell, they're light and temperature sensitive, that combined with some other factors usually harms them when grown in places like the South.

With the heat and other conditions they usually don't have a chance to recover and their leaves get scorched, even in a bit of shade.


I researched things a bit prior to obtaining seeds.


Thanks though! That doesn't seem to be common knowledge.

Ellocot

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2023, 03:38:45 AM »
I'll mention the sort of habitat that these will eventually be in.

Asimina triloba will probably need shade here.


I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I want an area with various Castanea, Fraxinus and Fagus species.

Some Fagus species are beginning to get hit in larger numbers, by invading pests that have taken out their visible hosts. Meaning their hosts are probably adapting to eat these too.

I'd ideally want to make a disease resistant group of trees, that still retain the same pollinators and things. Some white pines would be nice too.


I'd also grow Metasequoia glyptostroboides, Sequoiadendron giganteum and Sequoia sempervirens - plus Toona sinensis and ciliata here. Cedrela odorata. Cedrela and Toona are in the same family, subfamily and tribe. Ones from Asia, the other the America's. Toona ciliata and C. odorata are seen as plants that won't thrive in most of the United States.


I'd also like to grow Decaisnea fargesii, Cercidiphyllum japonicum, Ginkgo biloba and Eucommia ulmoides there too.

Not to mention, Zelkovas, Sabal, Hovenia, Eriobotrya japonica, Chaenomeles japonica, Cydonia oblonga, Pseudocydonia sinensis and Mespilus germanica (plus some Aronias and Sorbus - maybe some Malus and Pyrus species nearby).

I have one Boquila trifoliolata plant growing. The other died.

Lardizabala biternata, Holboellia latifolia, Akebia trifoliata and related species are also on a list of vines to grow which would go into this area.

Kadsuras would be fun too.


Most of that would be a wide hybridization area.

Some researcher friends have told me that all Redwoods should be interfertile. One species has inbreeding depression. Two others don't have huge numbers.

I'm far enough away from things that I could grow Redwoods and not disturb anyone else. Plus they take awhile to grow.


Eventually these would all make great cover for Pawpaws and other things. Ideally I'd have a seperate area near these for fruiting trees that prefer some sun.


A researcher friend told me that Litsea garciae may be able to be grown where I live, they've been helping do some field research of them. They're being used to graft avocados I suppose.


Unfortunately I don't know of anyone offering cheap seeds.

Hass avocados are already cold hardy, but my friend I guess probably uses the mentioned species for other reasons.





I'll probably try growing them along with Citrus species that I'd also want hybrids from.





I figured that I'd mention the sort of place where I'd be growing these.

I'll also be growing other species. If anyone wants to hear more about this full project, its going to be awhile before I post much on it.


It's partially an experiment where I plant living fossils, and an area for forming hybrids or attempting to popularize a ton of different fruits. I believe this would be easier than pushing Cherimoya or other things on people by themselves.


I'm growing mostly from seeds, so these mostly won't be producing for awhile.



If anyone wants to post their setups, I'd appreciate that.


Redwoods aren't likely to be chopped down. A lot of the other mentioned species are endangered or very rare.

Even when I get older and die, the trees would probably get marked as some sorta landmark because I'll be growing endangered species or things that give people disease resistant material in the future.


Redwoods aren't great for logging. Toonas seem to be prized as is their relative.



If anyone wants other information, since I won't be posting about most of this again / anywhere for awhile, you can shoot me a message if you'd like.

I didn't mention all of the species here because this is for Pawpaws and relatives.

I think that an area setup with endangered species, valuable slow growing species that can be used for logging, plus shade tolerant or loving trees and crops, grown together and used as a breeding site, seems like a good idea.

Some others seemed interested. Mostly researcher friends.

Zelkovas show up a lot in North Americas fossil record, as do some other species. They used to be as prevalent as oaks.


But yeah. Does anyone else here have any cool plantings like this planned out?

GoldenHillsFarms

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2023, 08:26:44 AM »
This reads like AI bot generated text.

pagnr

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2023, 04:13:22 PM »
There is no reason why an Ai can't breed Paw Paws.
They can order supplies online, rent facilities, pay a technician to water or pot up plants,
fund a research project into unique pollinator insects, and acquire some of those insects, use algorithms to invest, and use those funds to purchase land.
They could hack into military satellites and zoom in and pinpoint individuals wild Paw Paw trees with modified facial recognition software.

It is when people in the future start picking and eating those Paw Paws, that the trouble is going to start.

You may or may not believe me, but I am from the future,
I came back to try and stop P Day.

Oolie

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2023, 04:43:10 PM »
There is no reason why an Ai can't breed Paw Paws.
They can order supplies online, rent facilities, pay a technician to water or pot up plants,
fund a research project into unique pollinator insects, and acquire some of those insects, use algorithms to invest, and use those funds to purchase land.
They could hack into military satellites and zoom in and pinpoint individuals wild Paw Paw trees with modified facial recognition software.

It is when people in the future start picking and eating those Paw Paws, that the trouble is going to start.

You may or may not believe me, but I am from the future,
I came back to try and stop P Day.

I wish upvotes were a thing here.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2023, 11:54:10 PM »

Your post or the one preceding it?
You may be surprised that some humans are actually bots! they just wanted too fit in soo badly!
This reads like AI bot generated text.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2023, 11:57:40 PM »
Don't believe everything you read.
It's great to push it and give it a shot .
I am not sure which Annonacea  you'll do best with, but I'd guess Asimina Triloba.
Have fun



"But wait, there's more!


I'm in Zone 8B. This means I can technically grow Cherimoya - Annona cherimola.


A lot of places say it'll only grow in Zone 10 - 11, but may not have proper chill periods in Zone 11.


It'll actually grow in Zone 8, but substain frost damage sometimes.

It's well suited for Zone 9 - 10. "

Ellocot

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2023, 10:50:29 AM »
Yeah, most Annonaceae I'll need to grow in pots.

The Zone 8 / 9 grow reports were in California, Texas and some other places.

And they started things from seed, planted mature specimens in the ground.

Which isn't super surprising for Annona cherimola.

Saw some images as well.


Technically according to most online information, Pawpaws in California shouldn't exist, same with Asimina triloba in Florida.


Figure it's worth a shot.

Ellocot

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2023, 11:20:32 AM »
I'm going to take the other posts as jokes / lighthearted comments.


I've found from astral research that some people, roughly 56% of people were labeled bots and had other beings overlayed over them. Learned how to access other realms and things.

Some fellows also spread disinformation and called my higher selves race AI due to some weird racist guy with yellow veins and his weird cult. Fellows kept calling him Odin, but the name didn't fit. Took his weird place out due to other stuff he did elsewhere. Mostly attacked and tried purging my kin from astral places.

I also noticed that I only have 1000 or so incarnated siblings.

One seems to be well known as Yuusith or J'orr'ten here. For some reason there's add layers on us, because some winged fellows allow some brethren to stay here as secret weapons. Others are hidden to avoid panic. I dislike him. He's also still as weak as I remember. And blames others for his problems.

Tried explaining to others that I'd be a yellow being with wings and that I'd snuck into the odd bizzaro world where people call demons "Draconians."

I also noticed Seraphs of the racist kind were all in the astral and I helped purge their presence. Within 300 years, incarnated ones should be gone too.


That's off topic. But I figured that I'd mention this stuff, as due to astral stuff - I found those comments a bit rude.


The whole community of peoples knowledge in the astral locally boggles my mind. Most beings are told false origins or lies.

Less racists is good to me. Not all of those winged fleshy beings are racist. Plus other unfriendly sorts working with them were everywhere. Took months to help fix things up here and elsewhere.

I did find those other comments to be rude. Being able to see or communicate from afar ans making up other reasonings may not have been an intent, but they struck me as rude due to other stuff with them.


Anyways. I do believe personally, that Annona cherimola should survive here.


My Duguetia seed and things came in. Obviously those will be grown in pots. Once I get Cherimoya seed, those will be grown in pots.

Some, I'll try in the ground once they're big enough.


Apologies for the astral talk. Someone told me something about how I'm not supposed to do that. I usually just deal with whatever came, until the supposed enforcers were all captured or sent away.

Astral stuff can be calming as well.



For the moment I've went back to plants and plant breeding, which I find to be enjoyable.


That's going to be the only astral mention that I'll make here.

Ellocot

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2023, 11:31:34 AM »





Tradewinds fruit seed, plus Asimina parviflora seed.

I'm waiting on Asimina obovata and Asimina triloba seed.

I've always enjoyed breeding with plants.


Most plants seem to grow to size in pots.

So ideally a lot of these will be transplanted to a larger pot before they're a certain size.

A lot of these, I only bought single seeds for, as this isn't something I want to invest a ton of money into right away.

I'd like to grow the other mentioned stuff first.

Ellocot

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2023, 02:22:03 PM »











Bigflower Pawpaw seeds came in today.

It seems like these were already cold stratified.


I added some older images too.

Duguetia lanceolata had a root on it when I planted it.

I added some stuff to it, to make sure it doesn't have any fungal issues. I'm sometimes unsure about seed that is already germinated and has a little root, in a different substrate and temperature from what I'll have it in.


The largest seed in the Bigflower Pawpaw packet, is also very mottled with fun colorations and patterns on the seed.

A few others also have the mottling.

The seeds vary greatly in size. I got the seed from Florida where these are native, it's very possible that these are from multiple plants and whatnot / different accessions.


I'm in a group called deck or decks, so I'd like to name a series of these "Decks" and call one 27 - whatever, then 15 oe 12 deck.

I'm horrible with naming anything. But, if I'm growing this sorta stuff then I'll end up at least getting some Asimina hybrids.

I may seperate some of the Bigflower Pawpaw into different sets, based on seed size and whatnot. Some of these are also very skinny - others are wide / very wide. It's also possible that seed sizes just vary.

These took a lot longer than the other seeds to even leave the sellers post office or have then delivered there.

No big issue to me.


MarktLee

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2023, 06:16:36 PM »
I grow and fruit Pawpaw and Cherimoya next to each other here in San Diego. We only get about 70 chill hours. I fertilize with a super bloom and hand pollinate, except for "Sunflower" that will set fruit on it's own.

Ellocot

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2023, 04:07:10 PM »
The "Tammy" seeds that I ordered may be self compatible or self fertilize.

I'd order actual plants like Sunflower, but I'm unsure if they'll work here, usually being semi established trees. They seem very finicky with being taken to a warmer zone / roots aren't too great usually.


If I can find Sunflower Pawpaw seed or small seedlings, I may purchase those.


Have you tried using Cherimoya pollen on Pawpaws, chilling pollen or doing anything like that?

It seems rare that anyone grows Cherimoya / Relatives, plus Pawpaws close together.

Ellocot

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2023, 05:00:06 PM »
Tammy Pawpaw seeds are starting to come up out of the soil.

Bigflower Pawpaws have been putting out some taproots.

I haven't checked the Smallflower Pawpaws.

Ellocot

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2023, 05:07:55 PM »
Again, with the thing where I got upset with the whole

AI thing. There are not "bots."

I've also recently found that I'd be considered "Earth's Yellow High" and that people have been pretending to be me. Or doing whatever else. So my being incarnated is problematic for others.

Seems like if anyone knows about the Earth High stuff, they can give a small glance to verify whatever, if they're able.

Some others elsewhere were seeing what I was doing in 3D, they view 4D and think that's their future self.

Or other such things, not wanting some people to have credit for things. It seems like higher realm stuff isn't to be discussed.

But I never agreed to anything. Anyone with yellow energy can talk about this stuff if they want. Seems I have authority over that sorta stuff.

Ellocot

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2023, 05:48:52 PM »
I'm aware that many people dislike discussing higher realm things.

I'll note that both "Odin" - Marvel Comics shows him killing the original Odin. Shown as a frost giant in those comics.

Most people don't understand that the being that gets called Odin now, is just Yah'wei.

Yah'wei's domain in Norse mythology, is a briefly mentioned dark world, where monsters rule.

Obviously, making a tirade about killing the God of Christianity, but being Yah'wei, would look bad.

Yah'wei is a fleshy being.

Both he, and the female "Earth White High", have been banned from making any orders or having any say so, for the next 960 tri-zillion years.

The same goes for some others. But their government system was voted to be disbanded, there are some processes being run right now to do that.


So the whole system of having High Earth whatevers, won't be a thing anymore.


This isn't Pawpaw related, but I've run into some annoyances elsewhere, people saying bot stuff or going "So and so said this to me." They usually don't check dates to see it happened after I said whatever.

"Timelines." Those are 90% of the time, people going to 4D. Others place some energy over people. Then they say, oh that's, so and so's future / past self.


Possessing people and calling them homes or owning anyone is no longer a thing here.


People's spiritual secondary bodies fully merged back with their incarnated bodies.


Some people were calling my self here "Kali." Some female Goddess. Annoying. I don't know of any humans with red or blue skin.


People noticed my spiritual form, but didn't associate it with me either.

Some others seem to get flustered when realizing some things.

I'm unsure of what the "Male and Female energies joining" thing is about.

My best guess is that the Bible mentions something about a ribcage making women.

And so when people view others using 4D, they typically see the opposite gender, and view the split half or spiritual bodies which should merge with people, as the opposite gender.

That way, they'll never join and fuse.

Fusing pretty much means any possession attempts will end very badly for any being. People can properly defend themselves. Or their higher selves can do things.


I'd assume that whatever system people use to tell if someone's a male or not, in higher realms - does the opposite. And it reads differently for spiritual bodies and the like.

And they don't match to the actual people properly.



That'll probably be my last post about that stuff.

Ellocot

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2023, 05:56:05 PM »
I've found some Annonaceae species from Africa.

Small red fruited things.

I'd like to grow those out eventually.


I only mentioned that other stuff, because communicating on forums, people talk with those who interact with me and try doing or saying whatever or just being annoying and messing with my chats with others.

I'm typing what I want, there's no listed inputs or responses.

Some people were saying that, so that others wouldn't read what I'm saying.

I've also been told that if someone tries making you attack a "Earth High", you can report them for putting your life at risk or trying to use you as a scapegoat.



Also, many pine trees in the yard were cut down.

I will likely grow Pawpaws underneath Oaks, at least to start.


MarktLee

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Re: Annonaceae Hybrid Discussions
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2023, 08:04:51 PM »
I live in the southern most part of California where we get about 80 chill hours and no frost. I grow and fruit Pawpaw along side Cherimoya, Mango, Jackfruit, lychee, longan etc. Here is a video I made a week ago showing lychee, pawpaw and jackfruit fruiting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofkRdIWZqu0&lc=UgxDJuFge92c3DT23bZ4AaABAg