Author Topic: "Breeding" cold hardy avocadoes from supermarket seeds?  (Read 1263 times)

pagnr

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Re: "Breeding" cold hardy avocadoes from supermarket seeds?
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2022, 08:54:19 PM »
You would need thousands, probably tens of thousands to get a mutation other than one that makes the plant weak.

Most known Avocado varieties in USA and Australia, particularly older types are chance seedlings of unknown origin.
ie Jalna, Zutano, Bacon, Rincon, Edranol (seedling of Lyon ), Sharwil, Hazzard, Hass, Millicent ( seedling of Mary Martin ), Reed.
That is an old Australian list, doesn't cover all the seedling types in Nth Qld, let alone USA or even Hawaii.
There has been deliberate Avocado breeding in Australia in the last 20+ years, but not much result ???

Yes Avocado seedlings can certainly be duds, low fruiting, long time to maturity, poor seed to flesh ratio, fruit prone to rot.
Yet even on this forum alone there are notable Avocado seedlings intro'd by members.
I would go as far as to agree that breeding Avocados is a big task and possibly a long haul project.

Galatians522

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Re: "Breeding" cold hardy avocadoes from supermarket seeds?
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2022, 09:44:25 PM »
Wild populations of a give species have the greatest genetic diversity and provide a good idea of the genetic limitations of a species. Nature has already planted millions of avocados at the northern end of their range in Mexico. If the genetics were there for a deciduous tree that could grow in Nebraska (for example) we would most likely find such a tree (even if very rare) in the wild.

Galatians522

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Re: "Breeding" cold hardy avocadoes from supermarket seeds?
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2022, 09:54:38 PM »
To put it another way, mass selection allows you to select for the genetics that you want. It is not a means of creating new genetics. You have to work within the genetics of the species that you are dealing with.

pagnr

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Re: "Breeding" cold hardy avocadoes from supermarket seeds?
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2022, 03:32:20 AM »
There are Avocado relatives in the broader Lauracea family in colder areas, most of these are still evergreens. Sassafras is said to be one that is deciduous.
In the Avocado genus Persea,  "none of the species are very tolerant of severe winter cold, with the hardiest, P. borbonia, P. ichangensis and P. lingue,
surviving temperatures down to about −12 C (10.4 F) "
« Last Edit: September 28, 2022, 04:09:28 PM by pagnr »

Galatians522

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Re: "Breeding" cold hardy avocadoes from supermarket seeds?
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2022, 04:56:58 PM »
There are Avocado relatives in the broader Lauracea family in colder areas, most of these are still evergreens. Sassafras is said to be one that is deciduous.
In the Avocado genus Persea,  "none of the species are very tolerant of severe winter cold, with the hardiest, P. borbonia, P. ichangensis and P. lingue,
surviving temperatures down to about −12 C (10.4 F) "

P. borbonia is not graft or cross compatible with avocad based on the research I have studied. Are the others?

pagnr

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Re: "Breeding" cold hardy avocadoes from supermarket seeds?
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2022, 05:24:16 PM »
P. borbonia is not graft or cross compatible with avocad based on the research I have studied. Are the others?

The hardiest, P. borbonia, P. ichangensis and P. lingue, none are in the same sub group as Avocado.
Based on what you say, probably not.
Only Persea schiedeana, the Coyo is in the same group, along with Avocado sub species.
.
As the hardiest Persea, survive temperatures down to about −12 C (10.4 F), I thought that was probably the limit you could ever hope for with Avocado.
That is probably outside the scope of conventional plant breeding, but maybe not the more recent methods of gene transfer (from the hardy species),
or artificial chimeras of two species ?

In Australia there is a move toward much smaller Avocado trees, for picking and management purposes.

lajos93

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Re: "Breeding" cold hardy avocadoes from supermarket seeds?
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2022, 02:10:56 PM »
Wow so many great answers,

I havent heard of these species P. borbonia, P. ichangensis and P. lingue

What if you graft 100s of them to these rootstock by grafting experts, do you think its possible that one would take and actually grow well?

Do you think reaching that limit is possible to have within what is available to us now, or thats more like a long term breeding project that would eventually result in a zone 7b-8a avocado?

lajos93

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Re: "Breeding" cold hardy avocadoes from supermarket seeds?
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2022, 02:41:48 PM »
I guess for the size you can always just prune whatever avocado tree you have to keep it compact that would add a few more degrees of hardiness?!

pagnr

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Re: "Breeding" cold hardy avocadoes from supermarket seeds?
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2022, 04:29:37 PM »
Smaller Avocado trees when planted on farms usually need some form of frost and sunburn protection.
As they get bigger then become self protective and self insulating to a higher degree except until extreme frosts hit, say -10'c
Smaller Avocado tree varieties could be permanently protected in structures and still give fruit yields.

Different Avocado varieties might be more or less compatible with other Persea species.
It might also be possible that different grafting methods may be better.
Sometimes approach grafting and leaving the lower part of the scion rooted can overcome wide incompatibility.
Another method is to leave some branched on the lower rootstock to keep the rootstock tree functioning.
It might be possible to reduce the incompatibility barriers by creating hybrid rootstocks, either by crossing or chimeras ??
All interesting speculation though.



pagnr

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Re: "Breeding" cold hardy avocadoes from supermarket seeds?
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2022, 06:28:10 PM »
Thanks for the interesting article. Yes they got some Hybrid results, and some fails.
I see they suggest "bridging" hybridisations between distant species as a possible solution to get the desired hybrids.
Overall it is an interesting topic.
A more realistic possibility might be ultra dwarf trees that can be housed in protective structures, I imagine similar to other crops  ie eggplants.

Galatians522

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Re: "Breeding" cold hardy avocadoes from supermarket seeds?
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2022, 09:43:37 PM »
Thanks for the interesting article. Yes they got some Hybrid results, and some fails.
I see they suggest "bridging" hybridisations between distant species as a possible solution to get the desired hybrids.
Overall it is an interesting topic.
A more realistic possibility might be ultra dwarf trees that can be housed in protective structures, I imagine similar to other crops  ie eggplants.

Indeed! The trouble is that the bridge species has not been found yet and my not exist.

 

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