Rootstock size for mango grafting?

[drymifolia]

I'm planning to get some scionwood from my brother at some point in the next month or so (from the tree discussed in this other thread), and I have two different seedlings in my greenhouse that I could potentially use as rootstock, but would prefer to use the smaller one, which is the seedling of the tree I'll be grafting. Here's what it looks like now:



I don't know if that seedling (about 7 months old, stunted from a winter in a cool greenhouse) is too small for successful grafting, though. I know there are some grafting techniques (Z graft, for example) that can be used when a rootstock is thinner than the scionwood, but I'm not sure if those work well with mangos.

My other option to use as rootstock is a two year-old Ataulfo seedling that I have planted in the ground in the greenhouse, but I kind of want to grow that one out, even though it's a much better size for matching scionwood. Here's what that looks like:



Is there any way to use the little seedling without waiting for it to grow more first, or should I stick with the larger one instead?

I'm sorry if this has been discussed on here already, I tried to use the search feature and couldn't find any on-point discussions.

[sapote]

Is there any way to use the little seedling without waiting for it to grow more first, or should I stick with the larger one instead?

What is your objective? Ornamental or fruit tree? For fruits, wait until the rootstock have flower and fruits, then do the grafting. Why graft now?

[drymifolia]

Is there any way to use the little seedling without waiting for it to grow more first, or should I stick with the larger one instead?

What is your objective? Ornamental or fruit tree? For fruits, wait until the rootstock have flower and fruits, then do the grafting. Why graft now?

For most species of fruit tree, a small immature seedling (one year old or so) is grafted with scionwood from a mature, fruiting tree, so that as it grows and eventually flowers, it will be a clone of that known-quality fruit tree.

There is no need to wait for a rootstock to become mature and fruit-bearing before you graft onto it, and for many trees (avocados, citrus, others) you'll have much better luck using small seedlings. I assume that mangoes are similar?

[sapote]

There is no need to wait for a rootstock to become mature and fruit-bearing before you graft onto it, and for many trees (avocados, citrus, others) you'll have much better luck using small seedlings. I assume that mangoes are similar?

Not for mango. I suggest to read "mango grow in SoCal" thread.
If graft to a young rootstock, the young tree will try to flower and stop grow, then runs out of energy, depress, and die. Grafting to small rootstock is for commercialize, not for home growers.

[drymifolia]

Not for mango. I suggest to read "mango grow in SoCal" thread.
If graft to a young rootstock, the young tree will try to flower and stop grow, then runs out of energy, depress, and die. Grafting to small rootstock is for commercialize, not for home growers.

I have looked up mango propagation manuals, and they all say to graft on young seedlings.  Here's one from World Agroforestry:

Mango grafting booklet- A step-by-step guide

That says to use these criteria when selecting a rootstock:

• select a seedling from a local mango tree that grows well in your
area.
• Healthy, strong and free of pests.
• About 6 months old (which should be at least 25 cm tall) with a stem as
thick as a pencil.

The University of Florida says "1 to 6 months" old in their pamphlet on how to propagate mango:


Here's what the Australian government says in their manual for propagating mango for orchards:

Rootstock size and age. Mango rootstocks most commonly used for grafting are between 6 and 12 months old. Rootstock seedlings are considered ready to graft when the stem diameter is pencil-thickness, between 5 and 10 mm.

Here's what the University of Ghana says in their guide about when the ideal time is to graft for setting up an orchard:

Seedlings may be ready for budding/grafting between 5-6 months after transplanting. At this stage, the seedling must be about 25 cm tall with stem thickness about the size of a pencil.

What am I missing here? Not a single guide for setting up a mango orchard says to graft any later than 12 months, and none of them say there is any benefit to waiting longer.

[spaugh]

If you graft it small like that it will blow extra energy flowering before the tree is large enough to hold fruit.  Its easier to deal with the grafting now but there is a downside to it. 

[drymifolia]

If you graft it small like that it will blow extra energy flowering before the tree is large enough to hold fruit.  Its easier to deal with the grafting now but there is a downside to it.

I thought that might be the case for the smaller rootstock photographed, but I thought the larger one might be too large. Are you saying even that one is too small?

[sapote]

You’re in zone 10a, greenhouse, not a tropical as the author of the books assumed or in Florida.
So no, even with your 3 yrs old seedling in ground. I grafted mine when they were with 3” trunk.

[Orkine]

What you are hearing is that the answer depends on your location and what condition the grafted plant will develop under.

In some places you can do a stone graft which is grafting to a seedling even younger than the small one you have and it is not a problem.  The raft will take the tree will grow and al is well.  In California (there is a post on the forum) if you did that your tree would try to fruit by the next year or so instead of growing and you would likely end up with a failed attempt.

I have grafted to seedlings as small as yours, and some did just fine, more did not.

If I were in your shoes (but here in FL) and did not mind losing the small seedling, I will graft it.  That opinion is informed by my Florida mindset.  Seedlings everywhere and they grow fast enough I am not too bummed if I lost one.

[simon_grow]

You can use the smaller rootstock if you can find a smaller scion and you are comfortable bud grafting or micro cleft grafting. As others have stated, grafting onto smaller rootstocks is not a good idea unless you can keep the plant warm all year to prevent early flowering.

Instead of cleft grafting mangos, the majority of my mangos are now bud grafted because the union is stronger and I can graft onto smaller diameter wood. I can’t see the lower portion of your smaller rootstock but the upper portion looks almost too small even for a bud graft.

Simon