Author Topic: Illama germination  (Read 1470 times)

spaugh

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Illama germination
« on: July 16, 2021, 01:09:25 PM »
Someone posted about their seeds not sprouting recently.  I tried to dig up the thread but couldnt find it.  Anyway I saw this on faceborg today.  It basically says the seeds take 6-9 months to form an embryo and fresh seeds are hollow. 



Brad Spaugh

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2021, 01:19:23 PM »
Hi Brad,

From my experience, sometimes it takes 6 months to germinate and sometimes 2 weeks

Itay

NateTheGreat

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2021, 01:34:29 PM »
Interesting. Cherimoya seeds look hollow when cracked open, with gill-like structures, so I wonder if he cracked open older ilama seeds to confirm the change. I didn't get a picture of the inside of the ilama seeds I cracked open, but I thought they looked more viable inside than the cherimoya seeds, below.



kh0110

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2021, 01:58:50 PM »
I have never experienced hollowed fresh Ilama seeds, but below method has worked for me and not only with Ilama. Tedious to setup but it works for me.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=28910.msg327223#msg327223
Thera

JF

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2021, 02:02:18 PM »
It takes weeks not month in a green house or during summer. I sold hundreds of seeds to a FL buyer after one month in winter here is the results.







spaugh

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2021, 02:02:51 PM »
my only experience is with seeds from Raul.  None sprouted when I first tried then I left them in a bag dry for over a year and then all sprouted within a few weeks of trying again.
Brad Spaugh

elouicious

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2021, 04:31:55 PM »
All Annona are finnicky in my experience-

I have some Annona senegalensis coming up that were planted in 04/20

Seen the same type of thing with cherimoya, soursop, and atemoya- once the "timer" in the seeds clicks though, generally high germination rates-

This is with no pretreatment and no particular care for the seeds to keep them moist when coming out of the fruit

brian

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2021, 04:36:34 PM »
I received some ilama seeds from a forum member in early April, they haven't sprouted yet.  They still look fine, though, haven't rotted.  I have had various seeds take 6mo or more to germinate.

I already had soursop seeds around the same time and they all sprouted fairly quickly but they were on a heat mat.  By the time I got the ilama I just left all the unsprouted seeds outside. 

I scarified them with sandpaper a bit, and planted all immediately
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 04:49:28 PM by brian »

Tlaloc

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2021, 08:24:29 PM »
I found a dropped san pablo at the F&S park. When I got back home a week later I placed the seeds in a wet paper towel. Then proceeded to put it in an opened plastic ziplock above my microwave oven (the magical place). I got more than half to sprout.

Mike T

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2021, 07:31:29 AM »
We have talked about this in previous threads . I know I have related mu experiences with fresh planted and GA3 at various concentrations, storing dry and storing in the fridge. I have scraped cut treated seeds in every way when I had enough seeds to try everything on. My advice is that immediate planting and treatment in GA2 of seeds of any age works best. Don't go too strong or long with GA3 as I did and lose some to etoliation. 600ppm for say 10 hrs is plenty. If you have arse dragging seeds that have germinated for months then dig them up. Disturb them and get sun of them and replant.

Acetogenin

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2021, 11:11:45 PM »
What solvent are you using for GA3?  I have GA3, but do u use water, ethanol, etc

TropicalDoc

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2021, 04:32:14 AM »
I recently successfully germinated ilama seeds.

I used GA3. I had a total of 10 seeds, planted 3 without GA3, 3 with 500ppm for 2 days, and 4 with 1000 ppm for 2 days.

Only 2 of the 10 sprouted, interestingly, 1 from the 500 ppm and 1 from the 1000 ppm.

It was like no seed I ever saw before. The root emerged first beside the seed, then the cortyledons started emerging. The cotyledons were very long and I had to help them completely emerge out of the seed coat. Then the seed was empty, or so I thought, but when I cracked it in half, it was still full with a white material inside. It almost looked like a bug that was cut in half.  Very weird seed.

In any event, both are doing fine so far. See the pic below and notice how weird the cotyledons look:
The remaining seeds seem inert. I may dig them out, dry them for a while and try again with the GA3 in a few months. But I’ve read that a large percentage never sprout at all no matter what you do…
I’m honestly happy that I’ve got 2 live seedlings now at all…


Kevin



Acetogenin

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2021, 10:46:39 AM »
I had same experience Kevin.

It was so weird…like the roots “jumped” out of the seed, and also manually helped remove cotyledon

Guanabanus

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2021, 03:44:35 PM »
Fresh, good ilama seeds are definitely not empty or hollow--- they are full of stored carbohydrates, proteins, fats, vitamins, enzymes and minerals.

The embryo tends to not be well developed yet, and often is not yet visible to the naked eye.  If you can see it, you will find it near the rough tip of the seed.

I suspect that, when the seed is developing in the young fruit, that mineral availabilities, such as of Calcium, Boron, and Zinc, determine whether or not the embryo will develop normally.
Har

elouicious

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2021, 10:45:54 AM »
What solvent are you using for GA3?  I have GA3, but do u use water, ethanol, etc

GA3 is often not the wonder drug that people think it is-

first solubilize your powder in ethanol as pure as you can find- I usuall aim for something insane like 10000 ppm for my stock solution

You then dilute the alcohol suspended GA3 in water to the concentration you want to work at (i.e. 1:100 dilution for 100ppm)

this way the alcohol in the actual solution you soak your seeds in is minimal-

GA3 helps with germination but can actually inhibit root formation so it is important to only soak the seeds for 24-72h and then remove them from solution and place in soil-

DO NOT WATER PLANTS WITH LEFTOVER GA3

it really messes with them imho

Dmaxx69

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2021, 11:09:13 AM »
I recently had good germination success with some ilama seeds. First i cracked open the seed slightly with some pliers, just enough to break the seal. I then soaked for about 10 hrs in a weak GA3 solution (eyeballed it but less than 600ppm). Rinsed and continued soaking in fresh water for another 10-12 hours. Stuck all the seeds in a big pot and have almost every one of those little guys coming up now after only 3 weeks!. I believe freshness of seeds is the biggest factor of germination success.

Mike T

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2021, 07:21:59 AM »
floating and sinking sure doesn't identify the living and dead annona seeds but sinkers have a better germination rate, The manifolds in the seed make them all look wrong inside. The often cant shed the seed coat and lose their tops or a leaf at least. The frustrating thing about these seeds is that there is no formula that seems to consistently work, even with seeds from the same tree. I still think fresh planted and GA3 for 10 hours at 600ppm improves your chances but still one pots will have none come up and others will have nearly all. I have had seeds endure 2 summers in the truly oppressive monsoon tropics and then pop up and others after just a couple of weeks.

vall

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2021, 01:42:56 PM »
I had given up on the seeds I planted in November, in a greenhouse. Started watering again once I saw this thread - and I have a sprout, finally. 8 months.
- Val

elouicious

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2021, 10:17:05 PM »
Just had an atemoya and anonidium manii pop after more than a year

Stevo

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2021, 12:13:36 AM »
I sat 100 illama seeds in a bag with dry vermiculite on my desk for 5 months and only put them in GA3
10 days ago at 800ppm for 18hours then bagged them with moist vermiculite on a heat mat at about
30 degrees celcius and they all germinated in 5 to 9 days.This is not a fluke as I had the same
result last year using this method

spaugh

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2021, 12:47:57 AM »
I dont think GA3 is necessary. 
Brad Spaugh

Geeth

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2021, 11:36:57 AM »
how to germinate Soncoya seeds?

Geeth

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2021, 01:19:35 PM »
Someone posted about their seeds not sprouting recently.  I tried to dig up the thread but couldnt find it.  Anyway I saw this on faceborg today.  It basically says the seeds take 6-9 months to form an embryo and fresh seeds are hollow. 




 :o 8)

Mike T

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2021, 10:04:21 AM »
Necessary is a tricky word really. Does GA3 improve success in germinating ilama seeds? Without a shadow of doubt yes and I found out in repeated experiments on this species. Desirable yes if you want a higher rate of germination, necessary....not always.

spaugh

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Re: Illama germination
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2021, 01:50:02 PM »
I havent sprouted that many of these seeds but the ones I did all sprouted after sitting dry for over a year.  Then I put them in small pots of dirt and within 2 weeks thry all sprouted, every single one.  Cherimoyas Ive done hundreds of and they pretty much give 100% germination also after sitting dry for a year then planting.

Seems unnecssary to me but whatever floats peoples boats. 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 01:54:41 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

 

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