Author Topic: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021  (Read 1045 times)

BQ McFry

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First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« on: November 13, 2021, 12:56:20 PM »
Basically, right on schedule for my area. The forecast calls for 4 hours below freezing tomorrow morning.

I think I'll lay my tomato cages on their sides for this one, cover with a tarp, and see if I can get the vines to struggle on into the remainder of November.

My avocado trees are small enough that I could take them into the house. But for a 29 degree night, I believe just putting them into my storage shed to shield them from radiational chill will be enough.

I will blog my results on YouTube. Hopefully I don't get to tell the world in just a few days that I already killed my trees.  :o

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ0y3wvZgVdqdBSVxVM2OVw/videos






BQ McFry

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2021, 09:23:17 AM »
I woke up to crunchy grass and the ambiance of "a late December morning" in mid November. My thermometer and the nearest weather station indicated a low of 27 F.

I took my avocadoes out of storage at dawn, figuring that a lingering hour below freezing in a pot several degrees warmer, would be OK.

I may need to push myself to be less cautious - and really test my plants on deeper nights to see which ones have the best cold hardy traits. Then I could have a better idea who deserves a chance to be rooted in the ground someday. But there will be more opportunities. In my area, usually there are about 3-4 subfreezing nights in November.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 09:25:12 AM by BQ McFry »

TonyinCC

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2021, 11:17:13 AM »
When I lived in the Charleston, SC area, Winter minimums were generally in the teens at least once or twice a year. One year, I tried extending the season for my tomatoes and peppers by covering with tarps when frost was expected. I had about 4-6 inches of mulch in the area a few feet from a brick wall.  We had only one hard freeze that Winter, the minimum at my yard was 26 in an area with good microclimate.  After that I thought they were all dead. I just left the tarps in place after that. When I pulled my tarps in Spring, one yellow Pear tomato plant and a couple Cubanelle peppers were still alive. I trimmed them back, propped the peppers upright,and they pushed new growth.  The yellow pear tomatoes were cut back and just allowed to sprawl as they were the previous year. It was very unusual to have a Winter minimum that warm. Tomatoes and Peppers MIGHT survive a single freeze to about 26 with some protection. They appeared dead after that, leaves and smaller branches were for sure but the main stems still had life in them staying covered the rest of Winter.

CarolinaZone

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2021, 12:17:27 PM »
I'm 1.5 hrs North of you. All my in ground citrus is uncovered...for now. They survived last year covered. Part of my citrus is in the uncovered greenhouse. I left my white sapotes outside last night and have brought them into the unheated greenhouse. It appears that they have some frost damage. The greenhouse has about a 15 degree F higher temp than air temp is sits next to a cinder block wall. I left a 5 year old potted Jambolan outside which appears to have no damage. A 3 year old pink guava left outside appears to have no damage.

BQ McFry

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2021, 08:14:22 PM »
Looks like mid 20s are coming overnight on Monday and overnight on Tuesday. The National Weather service says it's a cold front tonight that's quickly followed by a second one.

It's kind of unusual to see nights getting into these low ranges before Thanksgiving.

CarolinaZone

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2021, 08:44:26 PM »
Since my last post I have started to see some damage on my jambolin and guava. I also had an avocado outside which appeared to have no damage. Citrus is still looking good.

BQ McFry

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2021, 09:12:16 AM »
Forecast calls for mid 20s (maybe even low 20s) across the piedmont Tuesday and Wednesday.  :o This is unusual for November - but it's a good early test of my 7B avocado project, and it is giving me opportunities to learn where to move the pots and push my plants to harden up.

I posted a new video this morning.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ0y3wvZgVdqdBSVxVM2OVw

Gulfgardener

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2021, 12:23:44 PM »
I was reading how container plants can get hit pretty hard by frost because they are above ground and pretty much right where the coldest air sits. They can freeze faster than if they were in ground.  Have you thought about burying the pots in a hole and filling them in loosely? That way they would have a some some heat from the earth. I haven't tried it yet but it's worth looking into. I'd mulch them heavily around the trunk with leaves.

Kevin Jones

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2021, 12:31:35 PM »
Last Winter I ran out of greenhouse space so out of necessity and as sort of an experiment... I left 20 or so large Cherry of the Rio Grandes in 5 gallon pots out all last winter with minimal care. Some froze back a little... but all survived a Winter with multiple freezes... and now they are all huge again.
Continuing the experiment... I planted them all in the ground this Summer... I want to see how they survive the Winter here in central AL. Zone 8ish.
Now I’m not suggesting you leave you’re prized Nelitas or Garnets out in the cold this Winter… but I think CORGs are tougher than people assume.
I will update as the Winter progresses.

Kevin

BQ McFry

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2021, 06:46:42 PM »
I was reading how container plants can get hit pretty hard by frost because they are above ground and pretty much right where the coldest air sits. They can freeze faster than if they were in ground.  Have you thought about burying the pots in a hole and filling them in loosely? That way they would have a some some heat from the earth. I haven't tried it yet but it's worth looking into. I'd mulch them heavily around the trunk with leaves.

Right now I have the luxury of "not too many plants" and "all can be carried". But yes when a pot is becoming cumbersome to move, this is an intermediate workaround. Even covering the whole plant for a few days, probably is better than allowing it to go through once-in-twenty-years temperature extremes.

You're right that cold air pools in low areas. My yard has a moderate slope. When I have checked the temperature in a far corner, it will be about 5 degrees colder than my reference point thermometer, which I keep on a railing near the kitchen door. I know that 20 feet or so from the house will be 2 degrees, so that other 3 must be from the descending cold air.

Interestingly, the lowest point on my property is a drainage hole surrounded by elderberry bushes. By this time of year, the elderberry is completely barren of leaves. But the branches still provide protection from radiational cooling. The ground in between them all, usually does not frost.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 06:50:51 PM by BQ McFry »

K-Rimes

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2021, 08:38:41 PM »
Last Winter I ran out of greenhouse space so out of necessity and as sort of an experiment... I left 20 or so large Cherry of the Rio Grandes in 5 gallon pots out all last winter with minimal care. Some froze back a little... but all survived a Winter with multiple freezes... and now they are all huge again.
Continuing the experiment... I planted them all in the ground this Summer... I want to see how they survive the Winter here in central AL. Zone 8ish.
Now I’m not suggesting you leave you’re prized Nelitas or Garnets out in the cold this Winter… but I think CORGs are tougher than people assume.
I will update as the Winter progresses.

Kevin

I leave a lot of eugenia out in the cold as well. Last year I left my large sabara uncovered down to 28f and it didn't even blink, I did cover it for a 26f spell but will probably leave it out all year long this year no cover. Some of these things are surprisingly hardy!

BQ McFry

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2021, 07:35:36 AM »
21 degrees F (-6 C) on my reference thermometer this morning. Fortunately this will be the coldest day for the rest of November. Even the weather service was stating that we've been experiencing "early January conditions" recently.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 07:37:42 AM by BQ McFry »

Kevin Jones

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2021, 08:25:15 AM »
We made it down to 33 this morning, here in the middle of the city... probably a little cooler in the outskirts.

Kevin


CarolinaZone

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2022, 06:54:00 PM »
I did am experiment. I covered a Bumper, Orange frost and Arctic frost with black trashcans during the last 5 days of Alternate snow and wintery mix in zone 7a/b. I also added a 5 call bucket of water. My theory was that on the snowy cloudy days they would be protected from the cold winds and they would have a higher temp on the sunny days than the projected outdoor temp. The controls were a ponkan in a 7 gal pot, and kishu in a 7 gal pot (both next to a cinderblock wall),an in ground ponkan and in ground trifoliate. The temps in Fahrenheit were :
Date       16        17        18        19        20        21        22
Temp 30° | 19°   36° | 27°   42° | 25°   51° | 28°   46° | 30°   31° | 21°   34° | 16°

The trifoliate did the worst with significant leaf curl. All other plants had no leaf curls. The uncovered plants had some yellowing (ie they were less green ).


BQ McFry

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2022, 12:05:24 AM »
Yeah, I have thought too that a dark trash can could be a handy "quick grab and cover" method. Another possibility is a black composite horse/cattle watering trough - although it's a bit pricey to use one of those just for covering plants. Maybe more justifiable if the trough is used as a planter for vegetables during the growing season.

850FL

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2022, 02:57:42 PM »

I leave a lot of eugenia out in the cold as well. Last year I left my large sabara uncovered down to 28f and it didn't even blink, I did cover it for a 26f spell but will probably leave it out all year long this year no cover. Some of these things are surprisingly hardy!
Small 1-2ft sabaras pulled through 22F just fine last year. I forgot if the tender new growth was even affected or not, I think it wilted. Same freeze stumped almost every single mango, guava, carambola, atemoya, papaya, jack, etc. WI avocados damaged, for reference, but G/M types were fine. However many lychees 3-10x the caliper of those sabaras had major branch splitting. Eugenias are hardy
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 03:03:40 PM by 850FL »

K-Rimes

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2022, 03:18:59 PM »

I leave a lot of eugenia out in the cold as well. Last year I left my large sabara uncovered down to 28f and it didn't even blink, I did cover it for a 26f spell but will probably leave it out all year long this year no cover. Some of these things are surprisingly hardy!
Small 1-2ft sabaras pulled through 22F just fine last year. I forgot if the tender new growth was even affected or not, I think it wilted. Same freeze stumped almost every single mango, guava, carambola, atemoya, papaya, jack, etc. WI avocados damaged, for reference, but G/M types were fine. However many lychees 3-10x the caliper of those sabaras had major branch splitting. Eugenias are hardy

My jabos do well in the cold as well, no sweat at 25f. I did get some burnt young foliage this season around 28f.

850FL

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2022, 04:24:21 PM »
Was it a sudden freeze or were they hardened off

K-Rimes

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2022, 04:45:17 PM »
Was it a sudden freeze or were they hardened off

They weren't hardened off, still pink

850FL

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2022, 01:15:54 PM »
Do you have red and yellow jabos?

K-Rimes

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Re: First hard frost in the Carolinas tomorrow, Nov 14 2021
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2022, 02:30:53 PM »
Do you have red and yellow jabos?

Yes, I have red grafted to sabaras outside my greenhouse, they fared poorly - lots of leaf burn but no branch die back. The red inside my greenhouse is perfect, hasn't lost any leaves. Yellows only in the greenhouse, seedlings did fine down to 37f.

 

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