Mango second cuts not as promised

[yuzr]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh1AnvNa6mc
Jump to 8:36.

His "first cut" :
  9:06 "Four to six new shoots will emerge from this cut." 
Three emerged, I'm happy.

His "second cut" :
  9:41 "Now another four to six shoots will develop from each cut." 
Instead, ONE each on mine, extending inline from branch, thus nothing accomplished by the second cuts.
Have you had same experience?

[Orkine]

Was your cut above or below the node?

If it is above, you will get or should get several start from the node and you have to reduce.
If it is below, you don't get as many and they start typically at the leaf below and the next one down.  I happen to prefer this because I believe (right or wrong) that it results in stronger branching since multiple branches don't come off the same point on the tree.

Either way, I have done both cuts and have had multiple pushes in most cases. If I end up with only one from a node, I will knock it off early and let is send multiple from which I will select

[fruitnut1944]

Isn't every cut both above and below a node unless you are cutting off the tip?

The reason you don't get enough new shoots after cutting back is because the tree didn't have enough vigor. Maybe it was too dry, maybe you didn't cut back far enough, or maybe you just didn't wait long enough before making more cuts. So give the tree more time, wait for good conditions, and more shoots should emerge after cutting back.

[yuzr]

If I end up with only one from a node, I will knock it off early and let is send multiple

Meaning multiple at the location of this new single that I would knock off?  Telling it "Now try again, do it right".

[skhan]

It would be helpful if you can post some pictures.
There could be multiple reasons and this will help us narrow it down

[Orkine]

Isn't every cut both above and below a node unless you are cutting off the tip?
.

Technically yes, but not exactly.

If you make a cut about half an inch above the node the new growth will be from the node just below your cut.
If you made the cut about half an inch below the node the new growth will usually be from the fist couple of leaves below your cut, not the next node down.

Either option is fine and could be appropriate depending on what you are trying to do.

See this video, he tips.  just removed the top and lets the new growth happen at different locations based on where leaves were.  The extension service video from Ghana make the cuts above the node.  Their new growth all happen at that growth ring, from the same point on the branch.

I believe there is an illustration on the forum.  If I find it I will share a link.

[yuzr]

   
For size perspective: first cut was made at waist height.

[Orkine]

Deleted

[Rtreid]

I think I see the issue here.

At every leaf node, there is tissue that can form a new branch.  If you look closely at a mango branch, there are regions of evenly spaced leaves and regions of tightly spaced leaves.  As new growth starts, the leaves are widely spaced, and as that growth spurt stops, the leaves become tightly packed.  look at the tip of a mango branch when it is dormant and you will see what I mean.  If you look down the branch, from the tip, you will see evenly spaced leaves for a while, then a cluster of leaves or just a swollen knob on the branch. on your photo, follow the stem down from your lowest shoot, past one leaf and you will see the area I am talking about, a tight whorl of leaves and some brown scarring.  Where you cut, the buds that were activated were from single leaf nodes, hence the stair step look of the new growths.  if you were to have cut right above that whorl that I pointed out, you would have multiple shoots coming from around the same area (I would not suggest going that now).  Let the current growth flush finish and harden off.  when the next flus comes out and hardens off, cut it off about 1 cm above  where this current flush ends and you will get the result you desire.

[yuzr]

The issue that you see is not the issue; the first cut is not the issue ("... I'm happy.").

I made second cuts as shown in video sequence cited for second cut;  my current flushes each should be multiples, not these singles.
Although your suggestion for a way to proceed from here is not bad per se, I do not want the elongated branch spans that would result.

If I end up with only one from a node, I will knock it off early and let is send multiple

Expecting multiples in place of these new singles that I would knock off?  Telling it: Now try again, do it right.

[pineislander]

I believe there is an illustration on the forum.  If I find it I will share a link.

This image came from a research paper I found on mango pruning.


.pdf format research paper:
https://journals.ashs.org/previewpdf/journals/hortsci/41/3/article-p543.xml

[yuzr]

Depicts what Orkine has been writing. And what my second cuts should have given (gray lines). 

1) A thought: For second cuts of this type, does it matter whether some of shoot remains beyond whorl node?

2)

As new growth starts, the leaves are widely spaced, and as that growth spurt stops, the leaves become tightly packed.

So, another unexpected behavior is the absence of intermediate leaves along first segments of my branches.

[fruitnut1944]

Your plant won't push multiple shoots even from nodes where it could if it doesn't have enough vigor. You see this on most plants. If you cut way back on a vigorous plant it will push many shoots. Why, because it has a big root system and suddenly a much smaller top so it pushes many shoots in order to regain it's former size. Cut back a little ways on a plant that's not growing and it may not push anything.

[Orkine]

Perfect, Pineislander, that is what I was trying to explain.

Yurz, I use half an inch to one inch as my measure.  I leave that much above or take that much below the node to prevent the wound from affecting the nodes.  I am not sure if I read it somewhere but that is the practice I adopted.
It doe snot guarantee you perfect outcome, but it does give you a good shot.

One more thing, I suggest you let the new shoot harden before you cut it.  Again this is theory on my part but I believe the roots should fit the plant before you make your cuts so that the plant is induced to grow new shoots to match the roots.

[pineislander]

I leave 3-4 leaves on each branch when tipping, everything else above comes off. Often 2  to 3 leaves will strike a new branch. It also depends on variety and vigor. The more erect growers tend to send out less shoots, especially on the upright branches they tend to be dominant and want to grow upwards. Carrie is excellent and also Mahachanok, they love to branch is a nice bushy form. There are probably others.

[yuzr]

This has been edifying. With much appreciation I will be guided by the generous information from all. 

[skhan]

I leave 3-4 leaves on each branch when tipping, everything else above comes off. Often 2  to 3 leaves will strike a new branch. It also depends on variety and vigor. The more erect growers tend to send out less shoots, especially on the upright branches they tend to be dominant and want to grow upwards. Carrie is excellent and also Mahachanok, they love to branch is a nice bushy form. There are probably others.

I basically do the same.
To add to your second point about vigor, i find the branches that are smaller almost never respond well to the tipping.

@yuzr
I find tipping every other growth flush helps alleviate this problem since all the branches are usually big enough by then.

[JoshuaTilaranCR]

I tried posting something the other night but my phone dies while I was taking pictures of my mango, hopefully I'm not late...

I have a Nam Doc Mai and it had 3 branches off of the main trunk and I wanted it to branch more. Instead of cutting the tip off I scratched the terminal buds on each branch before the buds started to swell and I got pretty good results. The two bigger branches sent out 5-8 growths and the smaller one I think had 5. Some of the smallest ones have since died off but there's still 5 on the bigger branches and 3 on the smaller.