The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: hawkfish007 on July 12, 2021, 11:50:36 AM
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I would like to share a few pictures of my LZ and NDM from zone 9b. We get low 50s sometimes until end of April or early May, so my mangoes are always late to ripe. Other mango growers of SoCal, please share you pictures. Both LZ and NDM are in rootmaker panel with open bottom. I had to plant them really closely due to space limitations and currently growing over 40 varieties of mangoes and other sub tropicals . Happy gardening!
LZ
(https://i.postimg.cc/sQHc25g7/C353-FE82-B768-4455-8-A3-C-614-F67-A60871.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQHc25g7)
NDM
(https://i.postimg.cc/tY6FPKgs/F0-F73612-FEFF-45-B3-A95-B-37-FF75-B4-EFF3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/tY6FPKgs)
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With such strong cold influence, you may be able to fruit the North Indian type mangoes that don't fruit much in Florida. Like Mulgoba and Shamsul Asamar. Definitely worth trying difficult to fruit types.
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Hawkfish,
Nice looking specimens. I live near Hawkfish. Here's my LZ, it's about 8 months in the ground.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fJNnD5WK/IMG-20210626-085022.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fJNnD5WK)
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What other varieties are you growing hawkfish007? Are you growing Gary? I was trying to find someone frowing Gary in California to get some info on it. Apparently in Florida Gary doesn't produce too well, but maybe its a bit different in Cali.
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I don’t have Gary but I do have it on my list to grow. Currently I have the following besides lz and ndm, cac, st, dwarf Hawaiian, peach cobbler, Phoenix, Julie, candy corn, m-4, alampur baneshan, mun su Ki (?), ice cream, spirit of 76, ugly Betty, Glenn, ok rung, harvest moon, sein ta lone, fruit punch, Pickering, CC, orange essence, orange sherbet, Diamond, cotton candy, Alphonso, lemon meringue, sugarloaf, pram Kai mei, lancetilla, k-3, honey kiss, Carrie, ceci love, zinc, p-22 etc. Most are fruiting sized but I removed the fruitlets to let them grow.
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alampur baneshan,
Hi, where did you get the Alampur? I got my from Toptrop and it turned out to be Iman Pasand which is very good Indian mango. Did the tree have fruit before and how was it taste? Pls post pics of the tree and leaves, and any fruits.
On the LZ, my larger tree has none this year due to no seed developed in the fruits and they all fell off at 3" long size. Are your fruits from the flowers bloom after April?
Congratulations on your mango growing success.
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I don’t have Gary but I do have it on my list to grow. Currently I have the following besides lz and ndm, cac, st, dwarf Hawaiian, peach cobbler, Phoenix, Julie, candy corn, m-4, alampur baneshan, mun su Ki (?), ice cream, spirit of 76, ugly Betty, Glenn, ok rung, harvest moon, sein ta lone, fruit punch, Pickering, CC, orange essence, orange sherbet, Diamond, cotton candy, Alphonso, lemon meringue, sugarloaf, pram Kai mei, lancetilla, k-3, honey kiss, Carrie, ceci love, zinc, p-22 etc. Most are fruiting sized but I removed the fruitlets to let them grow.
Where did you get your Alampur Baneshan? Was that grown from Scion or you bought the tree!
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I will post pictures of alampur later today after work. I bought it as 7 gal from champa last fall. I believe it came from pine island nursery. It hasn’t done anything other than flowering. I removed small fruitlets but it flowered for the second time.
Edit: Oolie, I would definitely like to grow those varieties that don’t do well in Florida, but would like to try it first. Sapote, these LZs are from end of April bloom.
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Pic of alampur baneshan.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kRKpz6Jj/241698-E3-61-DA-4-DAD-BE3-C-FAF0-B5-EE73-AD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kRKpz6Jj)
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Pic of alampur baneshan.
It's hard to tell from the single pic, but if it has thin and smooth long node-space with the characteristic flower stalk, and dark purple new leaves as in this video, then I think it's Ima Pasand and not AB. But then I have yet found a pic or video of a true Alampur Baneshan tree to compare the branch and leaves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2eNPTYwxZY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2eNPTYwxZY)
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Pic of alampur baneshan.
It's hard to tell from the single pic, but if it has thin and smooth long node-space with the characteristic flower stalk, and dark purple new leaves as in this video, then I think it's Ima Pasand and not AB. But then I have yet found a pic or video of a true Alampur Baneshan tree to compare the branch and leaves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2eNPTYwxZY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2eNPTYwxZY)
Being that tree, in the picture above, has a ZHPP tag, its probably IP.
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Being that tree, in the picture above, has a ZHPP tag, its probably IP.
I looked at his pic again and saw the smooth green branches with long space between nodes, which I tend to agree that his tree is likely IP.
I Googled around and could not find a video or pic of a Alampur Baneshan tree, around the world. Why? All of the youtube videos I have seen was from an IP tree in Arizona and the owner thought it's AB, which I don't blame him as he is just another victim of mislabeled tree.
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Has anyone approached ZHPP about selling mislabeled AB for years, or they don't care?
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With such strong cold influence, you may be able to fruit the North Indian type mangoes that don't fruit much in Florida. Like Mulgoba and Shamsul Asamar. Definitely worth trying difficult to fruit types.
Looks like Alex may have Shamsul Asamar, I need to order scions from him. Not sure about Mulgoba, didn't see any glowing reviews on it yet.
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The Mulgoba is a Florida mango (suspected seedling from India), which is documented in the CRFG material and is the founding fruit of the Florida mango industry, being a progenitor to most of the commercial successes like Haden. It's sought after when available, but never rose to the point of being a commercial success due to it's infrequent fruiting. If grown somewhere where there's enough cold influence, the fruiting may be more consistent.
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The Mulgoba is a Florida mango (suspected seedling from India), which is documented in the CRFG material and is the founding fruit of the Florida mango industry, being a progenitor to most of the commercial successes like Haden. It's sought after when available, but never rose to the point of being a commercial success due to it's infrequent fruiting. If grown somewhere where there's enough cold influence, the fruiting may be more consistent.
That's very good to know and worthy of trying. I will send an updated list to Alex.
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My LZ on Lavern Manilla rootstock has about 20-30 small mangos on it but I’ll be lucky to harvest 5 fruit from it. I have a lot of fungus in my yard but this tree seems to be ripening more fruit with each passing year.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Yh4yjQKw/20-CC694-F-CD98-41-CF-ACD0-54-A09277-E511.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yh4yjQKw)
(https://i.postimg.cc/JH0YNksZ/761-EA19-D-556-C-4-B13-85-D2-B673-D5-A97214.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JH0YNksZ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/1fL7F4sV/E9-EA9762-984-E-4484-955-D-59466-F5-A4-CF6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1fL7F4sV)
Simon
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Simon, Your LZ is looking good. I have a bad year again, the same in last year, that all of the fruits fell off due to no seeds. I was thinking about top working LZ and graft Okrung Tong on to make the tree (Lavern Manila also) 100% Okrung Tong. Curently LZ branches dominate the tree as it is more vigorous than OT. Since I grafted the LZ scions that from you, 4 years ago I think, I only had one fruit, a larger one. I will give it one more year, and will only let the tree holds fruits after mid April, hoping the fruits in warmer weather will have seeds and develop to mature fruits like yours.
Any suggestion I should try?
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The fruit that develops in the later, warmer months tend to mature successfully. Another friend of mine asked me about why his mangos are cracking and he believed it was due to watering but I explained to him that our fruit often cracks due to incomplete pollination.
Inconsistent watering can cause cracking and aborted fruit as well as lack of Potassium ( used in cell division) and Calcium and probably other minerals but when our trees bloom in the cold weather and especially when fungal pathogens are present, the weather and or fungus can cause issues with the pollination process.
You can often find that cracked fruit lack a forming embryo or there’s nothing inside the seed husk.
Simon
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Do mangos (the fruit) need to be covered to prevent sunburn?
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I would recommend bagging or sharing the fruit if temps get above around 90+ degrees.
Gary in Palm Springs didn’t bag his fruit in 113-117 degrees heat and they got some sunburn but his trees are somewhat used to the heat so protecting fruit in San Diego when temps are closer to 90-95 is probably a safer bet.
Brad, think Lemon Zest will do really well at your orchard because of the heat and you’re at the top of a hill with a nice breeze. LZ seems to thrive on heat and good air flow.
LZ performs really well on Turpentine rootstock as long as you have good drainage, heat, airflow and a reasonable soil pH.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RqJDM57G/9-CAC521-C-7-CC1-4-C20-B815-ED56-A336-A9-D6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RqJDM57G)
Gary’s lemon Zest tree in Palm Springs, not mine
Simon
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Those are some nice looking LZs Simon, thanks for sharing. Here are some almost ready to pick LZs on my second tree. My third LZ is a graft on Manila and holding only 1 fruit this season.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jLzmmPVk/41-C76778-E940-4872-A1-D5-145848-DD4711.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLzmmPVk)
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Those are some nice looking LZs Simon, thanks for sharing. Here are some almost ready to pick LZs on my second tree. My third LZ is a graft on Manila and holding only 1 fruit this season.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jLzmmPVk/41-C76778-E940-4872-A1-D5-145848-DD4711.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLzmmPVk)
Tbat sure doesn't look like its close to being ready.
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Those are some nice looking LZs Simon, thanks for sharing. Here are some almost ready to pick LZs on my second tree. My third LZ is a graft on Manila and holding only 1 fruit this season.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jLzmmPVk/41-C76778-E940-4872-A1-D5-145848-DD4711.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLzmmPVk)
Tbat sure doesn't look like its close to being ready.
At least share a picture or some tips about when to pick.
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Those are some nice looking LZs Simon, thanks for sharing. Here are some almost ready to pick LZs on my second tree. My third LZ is a graft on Manila and holding only 1 fruit this season.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jLzmmPVk/41-C76778-E940-4872-A1-D5-145848-DD4711.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLzmmPVk)
Tbat sure doesn't look like its close to being ready.
At least share a picture or some tips about when to pick.
The shoulder needs to fill out and color change to yellow (similarly to PPK).
I dont think I have any pictures of them hanging in trees. I have a number of pictures after picking.
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Those are some nice looking LZs Simon, thanks for sharing. Here are some almost ready to pick LZs on my second tree. My third LZ is a graft on Manila and holding only 1 fruit this season.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jLzmmPVk/41-C76778-E940-4872-A1-D5-145848-DD4711.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jLzmmPVk)
Tbat sure doesn't look like its close to being ready.
At least share a picture or some tips about when to pick.
The shoulder needs to fill out and color change to yellow (similarly to PPK).
I dont think I have any pictures of them hanging in trees. I have a number of pictures after picking.
Here is one where shoulders have started to fill out but still not ready to pick.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SjDWm8p1/20140713-162019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjDWm8p1)
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Cool, I will wait longer this year. Last year I picked at slightest yellowing around the nose and let them ripe on the counter. Some ended up with a brix of 28.1, there are definitely some room for improvements then!
(https://i.postimg.cc/94vDDvxM/5-C14-C8-C3-6-F3-C-45-BE-ACE0-E520-C1-CA4783.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/94vDDvxM)
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Nice looking Lemon Zest! Your fruit are probably a month ahead of mine. My first 1-2 blooms on LZ rarely hold fruit. It’s usually my 3rd bloom that holds all the fruit. I love LZ at 28% Brix, any higher and the sugar acid balance is thrown off. At 32% Brix, it’s unbearably sweet and not very enjoyable.
Simon
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I would love to see people eat fruit for the fruit itself and not based on what a random machine says.
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I would love to see people eat fruit for the fruit itself and not based on what a random machine says.
Most definitely, I have 2 1/2 LZs for that reason. 2 are on turpentine and 1 with PPK grafted on Manila.
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Another friend of mine asked me about why his mangos are cracking and he believed it was due to watering but I explained to him that our fruit often cracks due to incomplete pollination.
Agreed.
Simon, are those fruits from the late flowers blooming in April or May? My tree is large and vigorous but sadly there is no fruits this year due to incomplete pollinated fruits.
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Hey Sapote, those fruits were approximately from blooms at that time frame. First couple blooms in November-January didn’t set any fruit. I don’t spray my trees and after speaking to some friends in Florida, I could probably get a lot more fruit if I sprayed Sulfur, copper or other fungicides pre bloom to kill all fungus and then spray again with a different fungicide right before the blooms open. I already have all the fungicides, Nufilm 17 and Nufilm P and a Fogger but I just hate the thought of always spraying to get fruit.
Last year I top worked my big LZ on Florida Turpentine rootstock to Sweet Tart, E4, M4, Pineapple Pleasure, Venus, Edward, Ice Cream, Pina Colada Seedling and E4 seedling. My LZ on Lavern Manilla just produces more reliably for some reason.
Simon
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My LZ on Lavern Manilla just produces more reliably for some reason.
Are they near or at two different locations? I found the trees that are close to the house structure -- protected from the cold -- having more fruits and better pollinated.
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They’re pretty close to each other, maybe 30-40 feet away but counterintuitively, the LZ on Turpentine rootstock was in full sun, closer to the house and had better air flow and rarely produced a fruit. The LZ on Lavern Manilla is slightly farther from the house, gets significantly less sun and much less airflow because it is surrounded by a fence, a large Cherimoya, Achachairu and a large Jaboticaba. This tree produces fruit more consistently.
Simon
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Here is one where shoulders have started to fill out but still not ready to pick.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SjDWm8p1/20140713-162019.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SjDWm8p1)
Rob, I think proper mango picking timing is within days and not weeks, and so if they are picked based on the look of filled up shoulders, then do the fruits developed the full shoulders within days? I think color can change within days but fruit shape takes longer than a week to make noticeable changes. I'm not an expert on fruit pick timing.
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LZs starting to ripe! First one I tasted was super sweet with a kick of lemon zest. I forgot to check brix but will check for this tree ripen one.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zyWkyDTg/31-C37-D73-E76-B-4866-A382-E0-D9-A3429-B48.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zyWkyDTg)
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LZs starting to ripe! First one I tasted was super sweet with a kick of lemon zest. I forgot to check brix but will check for this tree ripen one.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zyWkyDTg/31-C37-D73-E76-B-4866-A382-E0-D9-A3429-B48.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zyWkyDTg)
Nice looking fruit hawkfish007! The mangos are starting to roll in and they’ve been pretty darn good. The E4, Sweet Tart, Coconut Craam, CAC and Glenn’s have all been excellent.
Two years ago, I had a CAC that blew my mind! It was super super good and I’ve been chasing that high but my CACs are good but not as good as the one my friend grew.
I’m starting to appreciate my mangos on the just ripe side when they’ve fully sweetened up but are still on the firmer side so there is more acid balance.
Let us know how your next LZ is. My LZ still have a couple or more weeks to go.
Simon
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Thanks Simon, for some reason my Cac didn’t hold any fruits this year, last year they were excellent.
Tree ripen LZ was 1.8 lbs with 26.1 brix. It was full of lemon zest flavor near the skin, subtle hint of lemon zest in the middle. It was an excellent quality fruit. I am looking forward to the rest that are still hanging on the tree. I didn’t find tree ripen one much different than the ones picked mature green and ripened on the counter.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MXND5MW4/88-A31-AD5-82-DC-4186-83-C5-FF2-FFEB540-B3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MXND5MW4)
(https://i.postimg.cc/18ZKxkVr/8-CA2272-A-CB04-4-E5-F-A5-F5-7-D9-BC0699374.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/18ZKxkVr)
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Hawkfish007, that’s a great looking LZ. I know there are Brix reading haters out there but by knowing the Brix, you get an idea of how well the tree/fruit was grown. For a mango of that weight at 26.1% Brix, I know your tree got sufficient fertilizer, water and sunlight. Yes, you could have just used your taste buds and known it was a sweet mango but sweetness is much too subjective.
Simon