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Messages - CA Hockey

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401
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Avocado thread
« on: July 31, 2017, 11:53:49 PM »
Thanks- the bug caught me early and because I was growing in pots and had no clue what I was doing there was a lot of troubleshooting in the early years. Couldn't figure out why the plants weren't growing, or why they would drop leaves, or how to get fruit, etc. the troubleshooting was and still is the fun part. Lots of credit has to go to the YouTube videos made by several growers including Carlos.

When you multigraft, do you do it all at once? I can't get a straight answer for this (or maybe I've forgotten the answer...) I've asked around and it seems you can graft stonefruit all at once with reasonable rate of success. Can you multigraft mangoes and avocados all at the same time or do you divide it up by flush or season?

K
That's a helluva collection CA Hockey.

Frankencado grafted last year - Pinkerton, Ardith, Sir Prize, Holiday.  Other trees in bottomless RootBuilder pots - Reed, Gwen, Oro Negro.  Lost my Sharwil.  Grafted all trees except for the Oro Negro.

Sir Prize - is it supposed to be this bumpy?  Spaugh's SP taken a few days ago has a smooth skin.



Grafted Reed is getting some size and bears well - about 9' H X 12' W.  I topped and it turned out screwy with a football goal shape, big hole in the middle.  Am trying to fill it in with a branch.



Last of the Reeds.  Been giving them away, eating them since May.   What an excellent fruit!



402
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Avocado thread
« on: July 31, 2017, 05:46:27 AM »
Pots because I started while in school living in apartments with limited backyard space and knowing I would have to move every few years.

I do get some salt burn on leaves but not too bad. Always thought it was a mix of water and aggressive fertilizing. When I backed off and started using more time release stuff the salt burn improved. I hardly get tip burn now and when I see it it's usually after a particularly hot day. The Hardest part of growing the avocados in pots  is the trunk burn in summer. I lost 2 feet from my sir prize last year and about a foot from  my Pinkerton . Both are much bushier now and growing like crazy but this year my sharwil in 15 gallon and about 7 feet tall lost most of its leaves and had significant burning about a month ago. Starting to push more leaves out now. Nabal  is growing slowly this year after painting the bark last year but no burn. Holiday I pruned too aggressively last year and this year looks like a poodle with fluffy segments of growth.
That's how I lost my other trees - bad burns in the summer.

I don't have any multigrafted avocados at this point but tried my hand earlier this year. Only graft that took was an Ardith and that died after the first flush. I think I'm satisfied with what I have otherwise and am now looking forward to putting them all in the ground. The house we bought has a 10 year old hass tree that looks pretty healthy with minimal fuss compared to what I used to with the potted trees. Only thing that is better with the pots is fertilizing - much easier to do with pots and a lot easier on my knees :-).

403
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Avocado thread
« on: July 30, 2017, 09:20:13 PM »
Mine are all in pots and boxes but after almost 7 years I will finally get to out them in the ground this year (along with about 150 other trees).

I have:
Hass
Fuerte
Holiday
Reed
Sharwil x 3, one in dusa rootstock
Jan Boyce
Green gold
Queen
Sir prize
Lamb hass
Pinkerton
Kahalu'u
Hellen
Herd
Day
Oro negro
GEM
Carmen x 2


I lost the following:
Jim bacon (great pollinator, worth getting a 5 gallon and just moving the pot around to which we tree needs pollinating, has kids of both types of flowers at midday)
Mexicola grande

I e hear mixed reviews on duke and haven't pursued it. Other than oro negro which I got from Florida, not sure of any of the Florida avocados or other Hawaiian types would make a welcome addition on a mitigradted tree (think I'm done with single avocado trees for now)

404
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Coconut cream in california
« on: July 30, 2017, 08:58:25 PM »
Champa nursery had a huge boxed one a few months ago but i think it's gone. However they had a new large shipment of mangoes and tropical recently (usually mid July). Can also try mimosa nursery but I think their selection of mangoes is limited.

405
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: vanilla persimmon
« on: July 11, 2017, 03:57:23 AM »
Thanks luak. Appreciate it. I'll contact you closer to the date if that's ok with you 😀


K

406
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Coconut Cream Mango - Pure Perfection
« on: July 01, 2017, 04:58:30 PM »
Champa nursery had a large bushy one for sale a few months ago but pretty sure it got sold. Cal them in El Monte, pretty sure they're getting another shipment 1-2 weeks into July. Mimosa nursery us lots of mangoes but I think more limited varieties/not as exotic as champa. Toptropicals, plantogram, and tropical treasures us (eBay) also have coconut cream for ca shipping.

K

407
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Reed tree blooming again????
« on: July 01, 2017, 05:08:29 AM »
No new blooms here but my fruit are kumquat sized. Going out of town for 10 days and praying we don't get 100 degree weather while I'm gone.

Are blooms and temperature related like with mangos?

408
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Brokaw mango varieties - any thoughts
« on: June 28, 2017, 06:29:57 PM »
I was at Laguna Hills Nursery recently and saw some new mango varieties that I had never heard of before. Gary told me they are from Brokaw nursery but I can't find any reviews or end-consumer information about the cultivars (taste, parentage, growth habit, rootstock, etc). They showed me a rating scale that the grower sent 😀.

There are a few varieties but I got Manila queen, edgehill, and placid which seemed to be the most highflying recommended of the bunch . I think there are least 2 others: 2022 and winters.

Anyone hear anything or have any experience with these types?

K

409
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Multigrafting Mango Trees
« on: June 28, 2017, 06:24:57 PM »
How many did you do at a time/per season/flush?

410
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: GEM avocados
« on: June 28, 2017, 04:40:09 PM »
I think that he meant Gwen (not gem) was better than hass.

411
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: GEM avocados
« on: June 28, 2017, 02:00:28 AM »
Hard to find. I bought mine from Bonita creek nursery. Brokaw and duarte nursery are growers that have it but don't sell to the public.

Try holiday avocado. It's also a dwarf variety. Can't remember if green gold is also dwarf or not but mine grows like one.

K

412
Are there any restrictions for shipping/receiving scion bud wood to California?

-K

Get you a green one and then add some scions later. Easy and cheap to send a few scions.

413
Pm sent

414
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: My cherries are blooming in sync!
« on: May 10, 2017, 01:35:56 AM »
The wind last weekend wreaked havoc with a lot of my fruitlets. I lost many pluots peaches plums nectarines pluerries... and cherries. Salvaged 5 royal lee but lost all Minnie royal cherries.

When will you harvest?

415
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: vanilla persimmon
« on: May 09, 2017, 02:58:45 AM »
Hi Luak

I'm having a hard time finding the rojo brilliante  or vanilla persimmon here in California. Do you have any leads , or would you be willing to part with budwood when the trees go dormant?

-K


I do grow about between 20 and 30 tree's and about a dozen are R/B"s.
Giombo is actually better tasting. Sayo is about the same.

416
Agree with above, but just so you know avocados usually have very ugly leaves. They start off lush and green and as they mature it is very common for them to have some growing at the tips, then they fall off and coat the base of the tree acting as a natural mulch. They grow in waves- flush of leaves which grow, get burnt st the tips, maybe fall off, then flush again. My biggest tree was bare for a few weeks while flowering and now is pushing out leaves again.

I do think your landscaping is too lush for avocado but I think it can still grow. It will be a little scraggly for now based off of the shape I see. I try and have mine more bushy because our July -august- September hot spells will give 100 degree weather that burns the trunk. The fuller I can get it with leaves, the more I can sacrifice them to shade the trunk (or I can whitewash it ...)

Avocados are pretty tough trees I've found, especially the larger ones. If you see little buds on the sides of the green wood, then they should slowly push their way out.

417
Where did you fellow Californians get your scions from? This is my first month on this forum sobpleawe forgive my ignorance.

-K

418
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Avocado varieties
« on: May 07, 2017, 08:43:18 PM »
That's where I got my sharwil and queen from!

Kahalu'u I got recently from the CRFG meeting a couple of weeks ago. We'll see how it does. It does seem to push leaves a little slower than some of the other varieties but I hope that is because it's small and didn't like being transported around.

-K


Some of the varieties can be found here.
http://www.epicenteravocados.com/varieties/img_5637_2/

Simon

419
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Avocado varieties
« on: May 07, 2017, 07:41:15 PM »
I have a queen, sharwil (among others) and just got a Hellen and kahalu'u. 

Haven't tasted fruit yet but they grow well. Shareholders seems a little straggly and not for container growing long term from what I can tell. Queen seems to be a slow grower.

I have heard that daily 11 fruit quality is medium at best. More of a curiosity.

I have heard good things about nimlioh but that queen and sharwil are higher quality.

-K

420
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What grows without full sun...
« on: May 06, 2017, 05:32:01 AM »
Cacao ( theobroma) likes partial shade

Cinnamon too

-K

421
I am - which is why the phytosterolemia stuck with me (I've seen 1 case). I am not however a cardiologist, lipid specialist, or a general practitioner who deals with cholesterol.

I would like to say that Oscar is correct -- phytosterols are not cholesterol . Cholesterol is an animal product. I posted (a little hastily it turns out) because I wanted to point out that phytosterols (the plant equivalent of cholesterol) is not entirely benign. The data is mixed; It is not clear cut. I offer my opinion below -take it for what it's worth :-)

Sources: I read a couple of sources on pubmed (can't find those specific ones now) but am linking to another with full article access from a decent journal.  Their results suggest phytosterols are normally protective, and they give good background explanation of the mixed history of this field and list those sources that argue against phytosterols being entirely good for you (articles 9-12, 26-29). One of the big studies they mention (the Framingham study) is one that has shaped US treatment strategies for multiple cardiac conditions.

The most interesting source I came across is the one where phytosterols were found in the vessel wall plaques that were removed during surgery. My personal opinion is that they are probably more beneficial than harmful because they outcompete cholesterol ... but because of their chemical similarity to cholesterol (they are the plant equivalents) the body can substitute it for cholesterol when and if it is available (turns out that is the trick - most people can get rid of phytosterols faster than most of it can be used, by it looks like at least some of it is still trapped in plaques etc). They are not entirely benign.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2817591/#!po=50.0000



Hi Oscar

Thanks for looking into that. I would have to say however that the interpretation is misleading. Phytosterols are a sterol compound chemically very similar to cholesterol, so similar in fact that they can lower intestinal absorption of dietary cholesterol by competing for the same receptors. In the 1990s and early 2000s there was a lot of excitement about phytosterols as a means to reduce ldl cholesterol. However, the more recent work has suggested that excess phytosterols, at least in some people, have resulted in an increased risk of coronary artery disease (basically the same thing that ldl cholesterol does; it is just not as efficient at causing the same buildup). Even at relatively low doses, though, phytosterols that are not deposited in vessel walls are still metabolized into bike salts. If someone has or is prone to gallstones (hardened accretions of bile salts and other liver excretions) then metabolized phytosterols will add to this underlying predisposition. Patients with phytosterolemia experience these symptoms because they absorb phytosterols at an increased rate and are unable to rapidly excrete them, allowing their bodies to treat them as other forms of cholesterol (and unfortunate for us it does not act like hdlbit rather can build up like ldl).






Not quite true.  phytosterols are plant based sources of cholesterol and it is possible to have a phytosterolemia (too much phytosterols in the body).

:-)

-K



Yes deceptive labeling occurs on very many products. Another example are fruit and vegetable products that contain labeling that say "no cholesterol". But only animal products contain cholesterol.
I also get a lot of people asking me if the fruit seeds i sell are GMO or not? Really most consumers think that all fruits and vegetables now are genetically manipulated, but the percentage is really quite low. The chemical giants are still mostly interested in altering the major crops, like corn, soybeans, rice, cotton, rape seed (canola), etc. They are slowly branching out into genetically modifying the major fruits and vegetables. I wouldn't be surprised if GMO citrus comes on the scene in just a few years.
Similar is not the same as. And note that all the products say "no cholesterol", they don't ever say "no phytosterol". Usually phytosterol is claimed to lower cholesterol. From wikipedia:
The European Foods Safety Authority (EFSA) concluded that blood cholesterol can be reduced on average by 7 to 10.5% if a person consumes 1.5 to 2.4 grams of plant sterols and stanols per day, an effect usually established within 2–3 weeks. Longer-term studies extending up to 85 weeks showed that the cholesterol-lowering effect could be sustained.[9] Based on this and other efficacy data, the EFSA scientific panel provided the following health advisory: “Plant sterols have been shown to lower/reduce blood cholesterol. Blood cholesterol lowering may reduce the risk of coronary heart disease".
Thanks for the info. Are you a doctor? Where is this info coming from?

422
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Florida Mango fruit for sale!
« on: April 27, 2017, 10:34:44 PM »
For those of us interested in shipping, what is the best way to place an order? Email, phone, pm?

Thanks in advance
-K



Some varieties at the stand now include Edward, Rosigold, Glenn, Jean Ellen, Mekong, Duncan, Ah Ping, Extrema, Rosa, Carabao/Philippine, and random others.

I'll have the farm open for regular hours from 3-6pm weekdays and Saturdays 9am-noon . These hours are subject to change as we shift from early crop to primary crop that will start in June.

423
Hi Oscar

Thanks for looking into that. I would have to say however that the interpretation is misleading. Phytosterols are a sterol compound chemically very similar to cholesterol, so similar in fact that they can lower intestinal absorption of dietary cholesterol by competing for the same receptors. In the 1990s and early 2000s there was a lot of excitement about phytosterols as a means to reduce ldl cholesterol. However, the more recent work has suggested that excess phytosterols, at least in some people, have resulted in an increased risk of coronary artery disease (basically the same thing that ldl cholesterol does; it is just not as efficient at causing the same buildup). Even at relatively low doses, though, phytosterols that are not deposited in vessel walls are still metabolized into bike salts. If someone has or is prone to gallstones (hardened accretions of bile salts and other liver excretions) then metabolized phytosterols will add to this underlying predisposition. Patients with phytosterolemia experience these symptoms because they absorb phytosterols at an increased rate and are unable to rapidly excrete them, allowing their bodies to treat them as other forms of cholesterol (and unfortunate for us it does not act like hdlbit rather can build up like ldl).






Not quite true.  phytosterols are plant based sources of cholesterol and it is possible to have a phytosterolemia (too much phytosterols in the body).

:-)

-K



Yes deceptive labeling occurs on very many products. Another example are fruit and vegetable products that contain labeling that say "no cholesterol". But only animal products contain cholesterol.
I also get a lot of people asking me if the fruit seeds i sell are GMO or not? Really most consumers think that all fruits and vegetables now are genetically manipulated, but the percentage is really quite low. The chemical giants are still mostly interested in altering the major crops, like corn, soybeans, rice, cotton, rape seed (canola), etc. They are slowly branching out into genetically modifying the major fruits and vegetables. I wouldn't be surprised if GMO citrus comes on the scene in just a few years.
Similar is not the same as. And note that all the products say "no cholesterol", they don't ever say "no phytosterol". Usually phytosterol is claimed to lower cholesterol. From wikipedia:
The European Foods Safety Authority (EFSA) concluded that blood cholesterol can be reduced on average by 7 to 10.5% if a person consumes 1.5 to 2.4 grams of plant sterols and stanols per day, an effect usually established within 2–3 weeks. Longer-term studies extending up to 85 weeks showed that the cholesterol-lowering effect could be sustained.[9] Based on this and other efficacy data, the EFSA scientific panel provided the following health advisory: “Plant sterols have been shown to lower/reduce blood cholesterol. Blood cholesterol lowering may reduce the risk of coronary heart disease".

424
Not quite true.  phytosterols are plant based sources of cholesterol and it is possible to have a phytosterolemia (too much phytosterols in the body).

:-)

-K



Yes deceptive labeling occurs on very many products. Another example are fruit and vegetable products that contain labeling that say "no cholesterol". But only animal products contain cholesterol.
I also get a lot of people asking me if the fruit seeds i sell are GMO or not? Really most consumers think that all fruits and vegetables now are genetically manipulated, but the percentage is really quite low. The chemical giants are still mostly interested in altering the major crops, like corn, soybeans, rice, cotton, rape seed (canola), etc. They are slowly branching out into genetically modifying the major fruits and vegetables. I wouldn't be surprised if GMO citrus comes on the scene in just a few years.

425
I second this thought. Curious to see how the resultant growth takes shape.

-K


I trained my peach cobbler which is on a turpie. I did not let a single branch grow more than 10 inches. I pugged at every 10 inch growth. Coco Cream is very fragile wood too. I would stake the hell out of it. You need some serious pruning to do, plus turbo charge ferts, NPK
Interesting technique. Do you have pics of the whole process and of the final result for your Peach cobbler?

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