Author Topic: Dragon Fruit thread.  (Read 953239 times)

RobPatterson

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1225 on: July 07, 2015, 01:42:14 AM »
its technically not a weight issue, but more of a maturity issue. Just like in most things, plants have to reach a level of maturity before they can reproduce, doubly so in perennial plants (as opposed to annuals). If you trimmed every offshoot from a dragonfruit plant and reduced it to a single branch, after a time, usually a growing season, that branch would have developed the chemical production and physical size to create the chemistry necessary to induce flower budding. You wouldn't get much in the way of fruit though, because you would be forcing the plant into an orientation foreign to its natural design. Remember, Mother Nature is a heck of an engineer, and has a way of making things work according to their environment.
Pitahaya is natively a climbing plant, working its way up the landscape to achieve a reasonable size for propagation, which it does in 2 ways:
1. Chemistry changes in the native soil, which correlate with the additional sun and rainfall of the spring and summer seasons, induce flowering, and then fruiting, in order to spread new seeds across the landscape. Sweet edible fruit encourage the process by getting animals to eat the fruits flesh and then deposit the seeds, along with some natural fertilizer, randomly in new places, through hard to digest seed coatings and spotty droppings. BTW, nature's way of adding flowering indicators to the soil is the return of birds to the area, which produce high amounts of phosphorus in their droppings, which gets washed from trees and leaves and into the soil through seasonal rainfall.
2. Branches of plants in low nutrient areas wilt a bit and break off, creating natural cuttings, which also bring new plants, although usually in a more limited radius, but something is better than nothing.

funlul

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1226 on: July 07, 2015, 10:00:10 PM »
Does everyone train the dragon fruit to climb as a single stem until it reach the top then spread? What are the considerations? Thank you so much :D
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RobPatterson

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1227 on: July 08, 2015, 12:04:49 AM »
The "umbrella" technique, where you have one (or more) main shoots lashed to a post, trimming off side growth everywhere but the top, is the most practical shape for a plant, if you have the space for it. It allows for uniform access to most of the branches in all directions. However, since not everyone has that kind of space, there have been many other techniques used, such as:
Trellising as they do with grape vines, rows of short T posts with pipes or other supports running along them, like wires on telephone poles, to give the branches support, but in a more of a row then single round plants.
Ive seen people grow DF up trees, as they naturally do, and then just letting them hang off like moss
Ive also seen dragonfruit growing down slopes (mostly from pics in Hawai'i).
The basic idea of all these is that the branches need some sort of support for their natural heavy weight, which only increases when they start bearing fruit. Under normal conditions, when an unsupported branch gets too long, it will break off and form a new plant. For us growers, that's bad, as we don't want random cuttings taking over our growing areas. They need to follow the program and make us fruit. At my house, Ive got a bit of a unique situation, where most of my plants are growing in a narrow space between mine and my neighbors yard, and I live in a track home, so limited space makes for desperate measures. Im including a couple pics so you can get an idea of one way to think outside the box. Just remember, your plants need sun, water, room to grow and proper nutrition. To get fruit, they need time to mature and, if possible, a support system that allows them to let their branches hang down, which tends to concentrate the flowering chemistry.
btw, these pics are about 2 years old.




ricshaw

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1228 on: July 08, 2015, 12:32:57 AM »
Does everyone train the dragon fruit to climb as a single stem until it reach the top then spread? What are the considerations? Thank you so much :D

One important consideration for me is I want to be able to reach the flowers for pollination and pick the fruit without climbing a ladder.

Delvi83

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1229 on: July 08, 2015, 06:12:22 AM »
Hello,

I was wondering if this plant can bear fruits also in pot? how much time does it require to give the first flower?
Thanks

TheWaterbug

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1230 on: July 08, 2015, 12:34:53 PM »
I think my purchased-from-Lowes-from-LaVerne dragonfruit is about ready for trellising, so I built this:

. . .
Also, I need to decide on a permanent location for this. How does one move a 6', spindly plant that has sharp spines?
So, 5 weeks later, I still haven't moved it, and now it's growing out its "crown":



The top part beyond the crown has grown another 2'!

Which just makes the moving part harder. Does anyone have advice for moving an 8', spindly plant with sharp spines?

If I don't get moving on this pretty soon I'm going to be asking for advice about a 9' plant.

Or should I chop it off beyond those uppermost side shoots?

I just wish the side shoots had started about a foot higher so I could tie them onto the horizontal supports.
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ricshaw

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1231 on: July 08, 2015, 02:28:54 PM »
Does anyone have advice for moving an 8', spindly plant with sharp spines?

If I don't get moving on this pretty soon I'm going to be asking for advice about a 9' plant.

The problem is you got started off on the wrong foot.  You should have planted it in a large pot on wheels with an attached shorter trellis and only allowed the top to reach 4 - 5 feet tall.

Now, if you only want to move it to a permanent location, I would wrap the spindly plant in a roll of cardboard and carefully move the pot to its new location.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2015, 04:38:19 PM by ricshaw »

ricshaw

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1232 on: July 08, 2015, 02:34:58 PM »
Hello,

I was wondering if this plant can bear fruits also in pot? how much time does it require to give the first flower?
Thanks

Yes, DF planted in a pot can bear fruit and the length of time for first flower depends. Sometimes a flower will appear the first year, it is not uncommon to see flowers the second year, most likely you should have flowers the third year, if you are unlucky or did something wrong, may take 4 years.  :-[

ricshaw

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1233 on: July 08, 2015, 11:43:02 PM »
Igor Sandler posted this on Facebook:


LEOOEL

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1234 on: July 09, 2015, 01:08:33 AM »
My 'David-Bowie' Dragon Fruit has just gone crazy this past week. I've never seen so many flower/fruit buds on it before. It seems that this is the result of applying cactus potting soil on it for the past two years (about once a year).

This 'David Bowie' DF is the only variety I have. I chose it because Pine Island Nursery said that it's reliably productive and of good taste. The trade off for me was that the fruit size is on the smallish-medium size. But, I'd rather have a lot of smallish-medium fruit, than having just a few large fruit.
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

simon_grow

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1235 on: July 09, 2015, 01:28:50 AM »
Here's another follow up on my attempt at year round Dragonfruit. My American Beauty has been red on the vine for about a week and I noticed that one of them was cracking so I harvested it. I also harvested one of my Yellow Dragonfruit that is still hding on from last year. The Yellow Dragonfruit looks pretty bad with lots of dots on it and when I cut it open, it was slightly soft, not a firm texture. I took a bite and the fruit quality definitely declined a lot. The taste was still good but it just doesn't taste as good as one harvested earlier. i tested out the Brix and it only measured 12% which was weird because it still tasted pretty sweet. I took another reading and got the same reading.

The American Beauty weighed a little over 1.5 lbs and I would have left it on the vine for a few more days if it didn't crack on me. The majority of the fruit tasted excellent with sweet flesh balanced with a great acidity. The Brix on the sweeter parts of the fruit near the center was 19% and the Brix closer to the skin was 17%.

All in all, it is nice to know that the Yellow Dragon can hold edible fruit for about 8 months although I would prefer to eat it at its peak harvest time. I still have two more Yellow Dragonfruit on the vine and the plant also has flowers that will be opening up soon.

Simon








LEOOEL

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1236 on: July 09, 2015, 02:59:48 AM »
Wow, the description and the pictures are mouthwateringly beautiful, thanx for the report.
'Virtue' should be taught, learned and propagated, in order to save others and oneself.

Dangermouse01

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1237 on: July 13, 2015, 05:39:41 PM »
Dark Star.


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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1238 on: July 13, 2015, 06:05:44 PM »
I have 10 DF in 15 gallon containers, with trellises. I have a question. I noticed today the one with the largest segment, probably 18" long and almost as thick as my forearm was starting to rot so I cut it off. The rooting segment plus the three sprouting from this big one look perfectly fine. Its the only container I have that's in morning shade only, the rest are in filtered sun all day long(it's  100-120 degrees here during the summer). I never moved it with the others because it was growing so big right where it was. Since it's in the shade I sparsely water it compared to the others.

 Do you think the fact that it spends so much time in the shade has anything to do with it rotting? And why might you guess the other segments look fine, but the biggest and greenest of them all is the one that got sick?

TheWaterbug

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1239 on: July 13, 2015, 07:22:32 PM »
Does anyone have advice for moving an 8', spindly plant with sharp spines?
The problem is you got started off on the wrong foot.  You should have planted it in a large pot on wheels with an attached shorter trellis and only allowed the top to reach 4 - 5 feet tall.

Now, if you only want to move it to a permanent location, I would wrap the spindly plant in a roll of cardboard and carefully move the pot to its new location.
Thanks! The cardboard did the trick! I belted the pot onto my hand truck, taped a cardboard triangle around the plant, and successfully got it down the ramp, across the apiary, and to its permanent home:



The 8' stem is the main one, and the left-most branch that's curving up is a second plant that refuses to grow out of its top, so that side shoot is all I have. I'm trying to slowly train it upward.

I also have two "throw away" cuttings in the dirt from side shoots that I pruned way. If they root, fine. If not, also fine.

I have drip watering going into the pot, but right now it's teed off downstream of a shared emitter, so I don't really know how much is going in. I'll have to reconfigure it so that it has its own emitter.

Anyone have an opinion on how much water a DF needs in a Los Angeles summer? We're running low 80s during the day and mid 60s at night, with no rain, ever.
Sunset 23/USDA 11a, Elev. 783', Frost free since 8,000 BC. Plagued by squirrels, gophers, and peafowl, but coming to terms with it!

RobPatterson

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1240 on: July 14, 2015, 12:01:43 AM »
I have 10 DF in 15 gallon containers, with trellises. I have a question. I noticed today the one with the largest segment, probably 18" long and almost as thick as my forearm was starting to rot so I cut it off. The rooting segment plus the three sprouting from this big one look perfectly fine. Its the only container I have that's in morning shade only, the rest are in filtered sun all day long(it's  100-120 degrees here during the summer). I never moved it with the others because it was growing so big right where it was. Since it's in the shade I sparsely water it compared to the others.

 Do you think the fact that it spends so much time in the shade has anything to do with it rotting? And why might you guess the other segments look fine, but the biggest and greenest of them all is the one that got sick?
Was the 'rotting' area turning a sort of honey yellow, and a bit mushy? Possibly centered around a thorn point and spreading out length-wise in both directions? That sort of rot is usually caused by a bacterial infection in the soft tissue of the plant. It can work is way in under a thorn, or through branches banging against each other and piercing their skin with other thorns. I do not know the type of bacteria this is, or its source of spreading from plant to plant, but it somewhat common at my house, on certain species. On newer branches I cut away the entire stem, but on older growth I can successfully remove the infected tissue with a sharp knife and wash the infected area clean with a garden hose on a strong jet setting. As long as you wash away the affected tissue and peel away any remaining loose skin from the area, exposure to the air will dry up and harden the remaining exposed tissue and the plant will keep going strong. Remember, as long as the central, wooden core of the branch remains intact, the plant will have no problem supporting living tissue further up the line.
Now, as a side note, other conditions that can kill the tissue can also bring on this bacterial condition. If you have a branch that gets separated from the main plant or a whole plant that the root system goes into shutdown, the bacteria can start to consume the tissue as it dies, which can radically increase its spread. Its always best to deal with infections as soon as you find them. Even something as simple as poking a finger through a soft area to let the air in can change the course of a bout of this problem. The bacteria seems to be anaerobic, and shuts down and dries up fast when exposed to air. If you want, you can also add a anti-fungal/anti-bacterial treatment to areas once you've cleaned them, but that's a persona choice, with organic and non-organic options available.

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1241 on: July 14, 2015, 11:07:15 PM »
I have 10 DF in 15 gallon containers, with trellises. I have a question. I noticed today the one with the largest segment, probably 18" long and almost as thick as my forearm was starting to rot so I cut it off. The rooting segment plus the three sprouting from this big one look perfectly fine. Its the only container I have that's in morning shade only, the rest are in filtered sun all day long(it's  100-120 degrees here during the summer). I never moved it with the others because it was growing so big right where it was. Since it's in the shade I sparsely water it compared to the others.

 Do you think the fact that it spends so much time in the shade has anything to do with it rotting? And why might you guess the other segments look fine, but the biggest and greenest of them all is the one that got sick?
Was the 'rotting' area turning a sort of honey yellow, and a bit mushy? Possibly centered around a thorn point and spreading out length-wise in both directions? That sort of rot is usually caused by a bacterial infection in the soft tissue of the plant. It can work is way in under a thorn, or through branches banging against each other and piercing their skin with other thorns. I do not know the type of bacteria this is, or its source of spreading from plant to plant, but it somewhat common at my house, on certain species. On newer branches I cut away the entire stem, but on older growth I can successfully remove the infected tissue with a sharp knife and wash the infected area clean with a garden hose on a strong jet setting. As long as you wash away the affected tissue and peel away any remaining loose skin from the area, exposure to the air will dry up and harden the remaining exposed tissue and the plant will keep going strong. Remember, as long as the central, wooden core of the branch remains intact, the plant will have no problem supporting living tissue further up the line.
Now, as a side note, other conditions that can kill the tissue can also bring on this bacterial condition. If you have a branch that gets separated from the main plant or a whole plant that the root system goes into shutdown, the bacteria can start to consume the tissue as it dies, which can radically increase its spread. Its always best to deal with infections as soon as you find them. Even something as simple as poking a finger through a soft area to let the air in can change the course of a bout of this problem. The bacteria seems to be anaerobic, and shuts down and dries up fast when exposed to air. If you want, you can also add a anti-fungal/anti-bacterial treatment to areas once you've cleaned them, but that's a persona choice, with organic and non-organic options available.

What if the yellow mushy part is on the base of the plant should i remove it or leave it to rot?

RobPatterson

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1242 on: July 16, 2015, 02:59:36 AM »
Remove as much of the rotten tissue as you can, either manually with your hands or a knife, then aggressively spray the area with a hose jet nozzle. Then clean up as much of whats left as possible to tidy up the area. Doesn't matter where on the plant it is, if you would like to keep the plant further along the stem, just treat the problem area. Think of it as washing out a bad cut or scrape. Sometimes you have to really get in there and dig out the bad stuff so it can heal right. As long as the core remains intact, the plant mass further up will survive.
Now, rotting that starts at ground level might actually be progressing from deeper still. Its a possible sign of root damage/rot. If you can do so, and the plant is large enough, pull up on the main stem and see if it gives way, but do it gently. If it doesn't budge under very light upward stress, you probably don't have a problem. But, when doing so, you might come up wth just a nub if the roots have decayed. Even this is not a complete death sentence for a otherwise healthy plant, btw.
If you have a large plant and the roots die, or the plant somehow becomes detached from the roots due to damage or rodents, etc, the plant will try and reestablish contact with the soil just like a cutting would. I've seen this firsthand where a Haleys Comet plant about 2 years old started sprouting massive ammounts of new roots at the base, enough to make the plant look like it was growing in a pile of angel hair pasta. When I investigated, I found the plant had come completely detached from the ground somehow. So, I piled up soil around the new roots and watered a bit more frequently for a while, and the plant is doing fine a year later, happy as a clam, and starting to bud for the season.

TheWaterbug

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1243 on: July 16, 2015, 12:48:09 PM »
I've seen this firsthand where a Haleys Comet plant about 2 years old started sprouting massive ammounts of new roots at the base, enough to make the plant look like it was growing in a pile of angel hair pasta.

Did you take a photo of this? That would be neat to see.
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Dangermouse01

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1244 on: July 17, 2015, 05:00:05 PM »
First ever flower on my Cebra dragon fruit opening tonight.



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Mike T

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1245 on: July 17, 2015, 05:33:51 PM »
A friend with a huge collection of varieties including all the Matts Landscapes and PIN nursery types,locally bred and Asian lines, is suddenly hacking out maybe 40 varieties including most of the famous hybrids.He is retaining only those proven to be self fertile in his environment so more than half the varieties are going.He is now focused on productivity and never hand pollinating again but some of the best tasting varieties are self fertile types.

TheWaterbug

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1246 on: July 17, 2015, 06:49:23 PM »
First ever flower on my Cebra dragon fruit opening tonight.

Would artificial light interfere with flowering and/or insect pollination? Would a webcam work in this case?
Sunset 23/USDA 11a, Elev. 783', Frost free since 8,000 BC. Plagued by squirrels, gophers, and peafowl, but coming to terms with it!

ricshaw

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1247 on: July 17, 2015, 10:15:15 PM »
A friend with a huge collection of varieties including all the Matts Landscapes and PIN nursery types,locally bred and Asian lines, is suddenly hacking out maybe 40 varieties including most of the famous hybrids. He is retaining only those proven to be self fertile in his environment so more than half the varieties are going.He is now focused on productivity and never hand pollinating again but some of the best tasting varieties are self fertile types.

Any chance that your friend could share the varieties proven to be self fertile in his environment?

Mike T

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1248 on: July 17, 2015, 10:31:38 PM »
It is on my work email and he was offering cuttings of the varieties and I will list many next week.I think many of the halleys comet,American beauty physical graffiti,purple haze and cosmic charlie style ones were going.I just don't recall about condor and others that did best in his taste tests.Some of the sweetest whites,megalanthus hybrids, best reds like Colombian red,red fox pink and a few hybrids only were being kept from what I recall.I gave him seeds of Oscars orange megalanthus and he had them fruiting in 18 months so he knows what he is doing and his yard is gridlocked with big pots of dragonfruit.

fyliu

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #1249 on: July 18, 2015, 02:01:13 PM »
Condor is not self-fertile.
The megalanthus ones are known to be self fertile.

I'm interested to know the other ones too. Maybe we have local sources of them here.

 

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