Author Topic: Growing Mango trees in Southern California  (Read 107344 times)

barath

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
    • Southern California, USDA Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #275 on: June 27, 2019, 02:30:23 AM »
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

In Dana Point plenty of tasty fruits will do well -- Cherimoya, White Sapote, Avocado, Passionfruit (not just P. edulis but also some of the highland species like P. ligularis and P. antioquiensis), along with a lot of deciduous fruits.

Oolie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 820
    • San Diego
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #276 on: June 28, 2019, 12:18:14 PM »
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

Both mango and longan are possible in Dana.

I am a huge fan of both as well, but if you haven't tried cherimoya, I would make tasting good selections a priority before deciding to plant a species that is more marginal in your limited space.

Some people who grow many of the select mango cultivars are quite envious of those in places like Dana who can grow delicious annonas. If you have any doubts, you should PM Cookie Monster.

https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html
and for info regarding mango that do well more coastal (though dated).
https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html

shaxs

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
    • Seattle, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #277 on: June 29, 2019, 11:12:05 AM »
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

In Dana Point plenty of tasty fruits will do well -- Cherimoya, White Sapote, Avocado, Passionfruit (not just P. edulis but also some of the highland species like P. ligularis and P. antioquiensis), along with a lot of deciduous fruits.

I got a lot of stuff in my backyard. First year here so things are relatively young, although I spent more money to buy older trees and vines in some cases. I have: 4 different types of passion fruit (red rover, frederick, banana, and purple possum), 2 low chill cherries (mini royal and royal lee),  strawberry tree (Muntingia calabura), blue java banana, mulberry, hardy kiwi, white nectarine, nectaplum, aprium, 200+ strawberries, Australian finger lime, mandarins, 20+ varieties of figs, 4 types of pomegranates, raspberry, blackberry, logan berry, blueberries, 3 types of ground cherries, 2 types of giant gooseberries, and various veggies.

For some reason, I am really fixated on growing a mango. I love a good mango. It might be my favorite fruit. But store bought ones are just so meh.

shaxs

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
    • Seattle, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #278 on: June 29, 2019, 11:14:37 AM »
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

Both mango and longan are possible in Dana.

I am a huge fan of both as well, but if you haven't tried cherimoya, I would make tasting good selections a priority before deciding to plant a species that is more marginal in your limited space.

Some people who grow many of the select mango cultivars are quite envious of those in places like Dana who can grow delicious annonas. If you have any doubts, you should PM Cookie Monster.

https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html
and for info regarding mango that do well more coastal (though dated).
https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html

Thank you. I read the CRFG material and it they recommend the following cultivars:

Aloha
Costa Rica
Earlygold
Fascell
Gouveia
MacPherson
Reliable
Thomson
VillaseŮor
Manila

Im not super familiar with most of those. I did see a manilla mango tree at Plant Depot in San Juan. I would love to find a more top-tier that will grow in coastal SoCal. As you mentioned, this is a little out of date. Would 'Cookie Monster' be someone to PM and ask about mangoes on the coast? Is that what you were suggesting?

spaugh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3920
    • San Diego County California
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #279 on: June 29, 2019, 11:20:56 AM »
Just buy a manila seedling tree (not grafted) and let it grow for many years.  Once it reaches a mature size then graft it with top tier varieties.  Don't bother planting grafted trees IMO theres not enough heat units in your area and you will be wasting years on all the flowers it will produce before its ready to hold fruit.  That close to the ocean and you will probably only get foliar flushes on a grafted tree for a few months a year.  Planting a seedling tree will completely avoid having your tree waste energy on flowering before it its ready to carry fruit.
Brad Spaugh

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6240
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #280 on: June 29, 2019, 12:24:32 PM »
I agree with Brad, weíve done lots of experimental plantings not just at his place but all around SoCal and grafted trees will try to bloom itís first or second year and every year thereafter with very few exceptions.

My friend Margie, is on the coast and she does have a large productive Mango tree that she planted from seed but it is a seedling tree so all energy, when it was young, went into establishment of its roots and canopy. This makes a huge difference.

If you donít want to bother grafting, there are a few varieties that should grow and fruit fine for you, even on Florida rootstock. My first recommendation would be Sweet Tart. It is absolutely blow your mind delicious and sweet and it is productive even in areas with high fungal diseases. It is also super sweet and the tartness level depends on what stage of ripeness you eat the fruit at.

Simon

Oolie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 820
    • San Diego
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #281 on: June 29, 2019, 01:52:35 PM »
I kind of was, but it doesnt seem like it is possible. I have never eaten cherimoya. I was thinking maybe a Longan tree.

Both mango and longan are possible in Dana.

I am a huge fan of both as well, but if you haven't tried cherimoya, I would make tasting good selections a priority before deciding to plant a species that is more marginal in your limited space.

Some people who grow many of the select mango cultivars are quite envious of those in places like Dana who can grow delicious annonas. If you have any doubts, you should PM Cookie Monster.

https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/cherimoya.html
and for info regarding mango that do well more coastal (though dated).
https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mango.html

Thank you. I read the CRFG material and it they recommend the following cultivars:

Aloha
Costa Rica
Earlygold
Fascell
Gouveia
MacPherson
Reliable
Thomson
VillaseŮor
Manila

Im not super familiar with most of those. I did see a manilla mango tree at Plant Depot in San Juan. I would love to find a more top-tier that will grow in coastal SoCal. As you mentioned, this is a little out of date. Would 'Cookie Monster' be someone to PM and ask about mangoes on the coast? Is that what you were suggesting?
I would ask him about his opinion on growing a mango in prime real estate for a cherimoya.

The La Verne 'Manila' trees are seedlings of manila, and therefore unreliable sources of genetics, they don't necessarily come true to seed, so there may be variance.

For any guarantees of a variety you should graft a tree, but as suggested, some polyembryonic varieties come true(ish) to seed.

You can use the Gary Zill method of crushing the leaves of a juvenile mango seedling to smell the sap and compare it to the dominant aroma of the parent mango, and then eliminate the rest of the sprouts. This method is currently being used to help select true to type seedlings from polyembryonic varieties.

I still think that if you haven't tried a superior (or any) cherimoya cultivar, that should come first.

shaxs

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
    • Seattle, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #282 on: June 29, 2019, 03:12:03 PM »
I agree with Brad, weíve done lots of experimental plantings not just at his place but all around SoCal and grafted trees will try to bloom itís first or second year and every year thereafter with very few exceptions.

My friend Margie, is on the coast and she does have a large productive Mango tree that she planted from seed but it is a seedling tree so all energy, when it was young, went into establishment of its roots and canopy. This makes a huge difference.

If you donít want to bother grafting, there are a few varieties that should grow and fruit fine for you, even on Florida rootstock. My first recommendation would be Sweet Tart. It is absolutely blow your mind delicious and sweet and it is productive even in areas with high fungal diseases. It is also super sweet and the tartness level depends on what stage of ripeness you eat the fruit at.

Simon

I'm game to try grafting. I'm growing some brown turkey fig rootstock to graft various col de dame varieties on.

Where do you recommend to buy the sweet tart and Manila seedling?

shaxs

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
    • Seattle, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #283 on: June 29, 2019, 03:14:21 PM »
Quote
I still think that if you haven't tried a superior (or any) cherimoya cultivar, that should come first.

I have never tried a cherimoya before. I'll look into it.

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6240
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #284 on: June 29, 2019, 04:16:07 PM »
LaVern Manilla should be available in the local nurseries like Home Depot in about a month or so. LaVern Manilla is a proven rootstock for SoCal but it should only be used as a rootstock as the fruit are inferior in most cases.

I order my Sweet Tart scions from Squam256. Occasionally, Iíll harvest scions from my own trees but they are usually not in the proper stage of growth.

Simon

shaxs

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
    • Seattle, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #285 on: June 30, 2019, 10:01:03 AM »
LaVern Manilla should be available in the local nurseries like Home Depot in about a month or so. LaVern Manilla is a proven rootstock for SoCal but it should only be used as a rootstock as the fruit are inferior in most cases.

I order my Sweet Tart scions from Squam256. Occasionally, I’ll harvest scions from my own trees but they are usually not in the proper stage of growth.

Simon

Would it be advisable to buy a 3 gallon sweet tart from top tropicals?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 02:45:58 PM by shaxs »

Oolie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 820
    • San Diego
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #286 on: June 30, 2019, 03:52:23 PM »
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=site%3Atropicalfruitforum.com+%22top+tropicals%22

There's been some good reviews, but also some terrible ones.
Something about rampant mislabeling of trees.

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6240
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #287 on: June 30, 2019, 05:24:26 PM »
Iíve had a bad experience with TT. I order most my trees from Plantogram.com

I would actually recommend against purchasing a grafted tree wether it be on Florida or seedling rootstocks. If you purchase a grafted tree, it will grow very slowly because it is grafted with mature, fruiting scion wood. It will spend 6+ months out of the year trying to flower and hold fruit.

If you want a dwarfish or small container sized tree, a grafted tree will be fine as the flowering/fruiting will naturally keep the size of the tree in check.

If you read through the earlier posts in this thread, you will know that Florida Turpentine rootstock does not perform ideal over here in Southern California. The Florida rootstock trees get extremely droopy and requires significant effort in staking up the branches. The Florida trees also seem more susceptible to gummosis and Phomopsis dieback.

The more vigorous varieties like VP, LZ, Sweet Tart do perform ok on Florida rootstock but the trees on LaVern Manilla perform much better.

Itís better if you plant a bunch of Kent, Haden, Ataulfo, or whatever mango seeds you can get your hands on and just let them grow for about 3 years before topworking the trees.

Simon

shaxs

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
    • Seattle, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #288 on: July 01, 2019, 12:12:55 PM »
Iíve had a bad experience with TT. I order most my trees from Plantogram.com

I would actually recommend against purchasing a grafted tree wether it be on Florida or seedling rootstocks. If you purchase a grafted tree, it will grow very slowly because it is grafted with mature, fruiting scion wood. It will spend 6+ months out of the year trying to flower and hold fruit.

If you want a dwarfish or small container sized tree, a grafted tree will be fine as the flowering/fruiting will naturally keep the size of the tree in check.

If you read through the earlier posts in this thread, you will know that Florida Turpentine rootstock does not perform ideal over here in Southern California. The Florida rootstock trees get extremely droopy and requires significant effort in staking up the branches. The Florida trees also seem more susceptible to gummosis and Phomopsis dieback.

The more vigorous varieties like VP, LZ, Sweet Tart do perform ok on Florida rootstock but the trees on LaVern Manilla perform much better.

Itís better if you plant a bunch of Kent, Haden, Ataulfo, or whatever mango seeds you can get your hands on and just let them grow for about 3 years before topworking the trees.

Simon

I have very little room for a planted tree. Maybe 1 or 2 spots if I remove other bushes. I was going to attempt these in containers. I was thinking to plant the LaVern Manilla in ground as my rootstock and getting the Sweet tart for a container. I have extra space that is concrete where I have a lot of my potted figs.

ammoun

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
    • 11a
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #289 on: July 02, 2019, 08:39:28 PM »
Simon, what would be a lazy routine to fertilize seedlings please, I read an article about half a cup of ammonium sulfate every month, would you do that?

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6240
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #290 on: July 02, 2019, 10:58:34 PM »
Shax, if you want a smaller or container mango tree, a Florida tree can be fine for you. If you get a Florida tree, you can also use it for scions to practice grafting.

Ammoun, the lazy way to feed seedling trees is to use a slow release fertilizer like Osmocote, Osmocote Plus, Nutrikote or something similar that feeds over several months. The slow release fertilizers are especially suited for container growing because regular fertilizers get flushed from the soil very rapidly.

Right now is a great time to fertilize our mango trees to maximize growth during these critical four months between June and the end of September where our Mango trees do most of their growing.

Simon

shaxs

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
    • Seattle, WA
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #291 on: July 03, 2019, 12:40:01 PM »
Shax, if you want a smaller or container mango tree, a Florida tree can be fine for you. If you get a Florida tree, you can also use it for scions to practice grafting.

Ammoun, the lazy way to feed seedling trees is to use a slow release fertilizer like Osmocote, Osmocote Plus, Nutrikote or something similar that feeds over several months. The slow release fertilizers are especially suited for container growing because regular fertilizers get flushed from the soil very rapidly.

Right now is a great time to fertilize our mango trees to maximize growth during these critical four months between June and the end of September where our Mango trees do most of their growing.

Simon

Thank you Simon. I got a Sweet Tart and will wait for the LeVerne mangoes to come to Home Depot to experiment with grafting.

TBedeezy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
    • USA, CA, San Diego, 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #292 on: July 10, 2019, 05:19:27 PM »
Spent the last few hours reading up on this thread and feel a lot more comfortable with my plan of planting seeds and letting them develop. So much helpful information as our climate is a bit unique for mango trees. 

FV Fruit Freak

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
    • USA, Southern California, Fountain Valley, 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #293 on: July 10, 2019, 06:17:32 PM »
Hi Simon,
Iíve been planting a bunch of Kent seeds in pots, should I put the seeds in sun, shade, or partial shade? And if shade/partial shade, how long before they can take full sun? Thanks.
Nate

SHV

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
    • Escondido, CA
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #294 on: July 10, 2019, 08:50:22 PM »
Likewise, I really appreciate the collective information on growing mangos in Southern CA. In my limited experience (3 years), seedling growth has been far more robust than my grafted trees from Florida. The constant flowering really delays the vegetative growth during our short season. I have planted seedlings from various types of mangos and they all seem to establish well. My first Alphonso seedling flowered after just three years in the ground (a small panicle), but it has established itself well with strong growth. Hoping to topwork with some favored varieties next year.

ammoun

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
    • 11a
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #295 on: July 17, 2019, 07:15:56 PM »
Likewise, I really appreciate the collective information on growing mangos in Southern CA. In my limited experience (3 years), seedling growth has been far more robust than my grafted trees from Florida. The constant flowering really delays the vegetative growth during our short season. I have planted seedlings from various types of mangos and they all seem to establish well. My first Alphonso seedling flowered after just three years in the ground (a small panicle), but it has established itself well with strong growth. Hoping to topwork with some favored varieties next year.

I have a couple Alphonso seedlings and I was wondering if it's worth letting grow without grafting to see if I could get a decent close variety, I bet it's common in India, do you know how close to an Alphonso the seedling will be? :)

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6240
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #296 on: July 19, 2019, 03:45:52 PM »
Hi Simon,
Iíve been planting a bunch of Kent seeds in pots, should I put the seeds in sun, shade, or partial shade? And if shade/partial shade, how long before they can take full sun? Thanks.

Thanks everyone,

Iím glad members are trying out some of these techniques I mention in this thread.

FV Fruit Freak,

When I plant my mango seeds, I keep them in full sun so that the soil heats up faster which makes them sprout faster. Also, by planting them in full sun, you wonít have to acclimate them to full sun.

If your seedlings are currently in the shade, you will have to gradually acclimate them to full sun by putting them in part sun and then gradually giving them more and more full sun. Cloudy days are great for acclimating seedlings. Protect them from the sun especially between 11 am and 2pm when the sun is directly overhead.

Alphonso is Monoembryonic and and I have no idea how it was selected. The more rounds of selection a variety has gone through, the more set the traits are. With re arrangement of the chromosomes from sexual reproduction, there is a good chance of getting something completely different tasting than compared to the Aphonso.

Simon

ammoun

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
    • 11a
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #297 on: July 20, 2019, 09:08:20 PM »
Thank you.

I'm dealing with root rot in many of my potted seedlings and now I'm trying to save as much as I can. Once the stalk surface loses a bit of its smoothness and the very fine wrinkles start to appear, is there ever a go back from there :D I'm talking about the ones before the browning at the stalk's base starts to appear.

I up-potted many seedlings, and for some reason due to overwatering most likely, the seed catches rot super easy. Is it a common practice to always leave the seed uncovered to reduce the chance of rotting underneath the medium?


Mango_Seed

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
    • Zone 10
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #298 on: July 20, 2019, 09:12:00 PM »
Why are turpentine mangos used in Florida for rootstock to begin with? I don't know, maybe because it hot outside working in the grove & you drink the juice out of 30 of them everyday? With all those seeds left over you might as well plant them.

I did however find this study on rootstocks from down under that might be of interest to you:

https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/43/6/article-p1720.xml

I saw a post about turpentine not having a big tap root & and a video about air layering not being popular in Florida because you need a tap root with all the hurricanes. Not sure what to make of that?

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6240
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #299 on: July 21, 2019, 12:23:44 AM »
Thank you.

I'm dealing with root rot in many of my potted seedlings and now I'm trying to save as much as I can. Once the stalk surface loses a bit of its smoothness and the very fine wrinkles start to appear, is there ever a go back from there :D I'm talking about the ones before the browning at the stalk's base starts to appear.

I up-potted many seedlings, and for some reason due to overwatering most likely, the seed catches rot super easy. Is it a common practice to always leave the seed uncovered to reduce the chance of rotting underneath the medium?

A picture will help to diagnose the problem. Did you damage the roots at all? If itís getting wrinkly because of lack of water, it can spring back pretty quickly.

If your seedlings are getting a dark lesion close to the soil surface at the interface of the sprout and the roots, you may be using too rich a potting soil. Try something that has more inorganic matter like sand or pumice. You can also look for a good fast draining soil mix or cactus mix if you tend to overwater.

Simon

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk