Author Topic: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)  (Read 31636 times)

bill_bayarea

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2022, 12:25:32 PM »
Hi Kang, thank you for checking. The grower clearly said they are different in size, color and the time of blooming.

Here is the screenshot of my conversation with the grower and vendor.


Hi Bill, the seller has no idea what he’s talking about.

Biqi is very dark - I’ve had Biqi and dongkui fruits in both US and China. The pic in the chinese document above about Biqi also shows very dark fruits. Biqi and dongkui are the two most widely grown varieties and are very distinctive.

Dongkui is large (largest of all common varieties), red to red/black, sweet but with some tartness.

Biqi is much darker, medium/small size, sweet with less tartness.

I never heard of male trees w/ varieties. They should be based on male seedlings (either male seedling or scion from a male seedling grafted onto seedling). As you know Yangmei don’t come true to seeds.

Anyway don’t want to be negative. You are doing a great job - I just don’t think the seller knows about the varieties. If he’s really a grower I’d ask him to show pics of his trees, leaf patterns, and fruits.

 Asked again to the vendor for further clarification and for sending us some pictures telling us the difference between Biqi and Black diamond( Carbon).
 She said that Black diamond( Carbon) is sweeter than Biqi,and Biqi does not bear fruits as many as Black diamond( Carbon) and Dongkui. Also Biqi is easy to drop fruits from trees. This is based on more than ten years of growing experiences.
Both leaves for Biqi and Black diamond( Carbon) look similar.
They brand them separately and have been marketing them separately for many years.

  Black diamond( Carbon) fruits







Biqi fruits
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 12:27:31 PM by bill_bayarea »

beicadad

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2022, 02:20:02 PM »
Bill, appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of it. But the seller's answer is full of contradictions.
1) He said Biqi is more reddish, yet the picture he shared shows that Biqi is darker than so called "black carbon".
2) in your chat window, he said they have same sweetness level, but size is different. Now he said "black carbon" is sweeter.
3) He said "black carbon" is similar to Dongkui, smaller than Biqi. but it cannot be true, as biqi is much smaller than dongkui already. "black carbon" would be much, much smaller than Dongkui.

I never heard of "black diamond" yangmei. Google search (in Chinese) shows no relevant results. I think the seller just invented a fancy new name and try to sell more trees. Again, appreciate the good things that you are doing, but I have strong feeling against inventing new names for known varieties.

Pretty sure "black carbon" is just Biqi. Both names are legit, and are in most cases interchangeable. I was told that some people call an inferior cultivar "black carbon" (more reddish, less sweet, more prone to fruit dropping), however, but it's not widely accepted as "black carbon".

Biqi is widely considered one of the most productive varieties w/o premature fruit dropping issue. So I'm very surprised to hear that as well.


« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 02:23:13 PM by beicadad »

beicadad

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2022, 02:40:52 PM »
  Black diamond( Carbon) fruits







Biqi fruits

Hi Bill, are these the seller's own pics, or he pulled them from the Internet?

q_bayarea

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2022, 06:17:25 PM »
First time using the forum, just realized I should have used quote instead of modifying original text directly...so Bill might notice the changes

Hi Bill, this is an update to my order:

12 Total (was 6)

Dongkui 1 Male, 3 x Female
Black Diamond 1 x Male, 3 x Female
Biqi 2 Female
Late Growing 2 Female

Thanks!

Hi Bill, this is an update to my order:

12 Total (was 6)

Dongkui 1 Male, 3 x Female
Black Diamond 1 x Male, 3 x Female
Biqi 2 Female
Late Growing 2 Female

Thanks!

bill_bayarea

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2022, 07:26:00 PM »
Bill, appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of it. But the seller's answer is full of contradictions.
1) He said Biqi is more reddish, yet the picture he shared shows that Biqi is darker than so called "black carbon".
2) in your chat window, he said they have same sweetness level, but size is different. Now he said "black carbon" is sweeter.
3) He said "black carbon" is similar to Dongkui, smaller than Biqi. but it cannot be true, as biqi is much smaller than dongkui already. "black carbon" would be much, much smaller than Dongkui.

I never heard of "black diamond" yangmei. Google search (in Chinese) shows no relevant results. I think the seller just invented a fancy new name and try to sell more trees. Again, appreciate the good things that you are doing, but I have strong feeling against inventing new names for known varieties.

Pretty sure "black carbon" is just Biqi. Both names are legit, and are in most cases interchangeable. I was told that some people call an inferior cultivar "black carbon" (more reddish, less sweet, more prone to fruit dropping), however, but it's not widely accepted as "black carbon".

Biqi is widely considered one of the most productive varieties w/o premature fruit dropping issue. So I'm very surprised to hear that as well.

Definitely I will check with other growers to give folks a clear idea. So, everyone can place order with confidence. Thanks.

"black carbon", "black diamond", "Charcoal", all names for the variety, do not matter. Myself even called it Charcoal at the beginning, but the black diamond truly sounds fancier than  "black carbon" or  "Charcoal". Just like people introduced the (Myrica) Wax Myrtle tree to China, they called it wax yangmei on purpose.

My personal interpretation from all the resources I read on internet is that Black Diamond or Black Carbon might be a type of variation of BIQI, they are slightly different in color, size, sweetness, etc. Some people in China even say that Biqi could be
black carbon, but definitely black carbon is not Biqi. It's confusing the consumers, right? Just like An Hai, they have soft, hard, and medium flesh/silk, black carbon has big black carbon, and regular black carbon.

 For this group order, I am planning to get trees from two vendors, one from Zhejiang province, another one from Fujian province, that's why we can get 4 year old trees in a good price. But so far, I got the answer from both vendors, they said same thing that BIqI and black carbon are different.     

 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 07:28:55 PM by bill_bayarea »

fruit4me

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2022, 12:31:59 AM »
Hi Bill


Theres a mistake on the top Tentative order request list for my order. Please correct the CR male to a BiQi male. Thanks.

bill_bayarea

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2022, 03:18:27 AM »
  Black diamond( Carbon) fruits







Biqi fruits

Hi Bill, are these the seller's own pics, or he pulled them from the Internet?

 Confirmed with the vendor, pictures are from their own online shop. The hand holding Yangmei is her own hand.

 Attached below are the pages of the Yangmei Growing Manual( in Chinese version) for different big categories. Looks like Biqi and black Diamond are under same Biqi category, but different in size, color. I will double check with other vendors and growers.

                              

Along with these scanned pages, the vendor also sent me the pictures of Biqi, Dongkui, Black Diamond in their sales guide which they used in old days. I uploaded those three pictures in the first page.

For comparison purpose,she also promised me that she was going to send us some videos in summer showing the true difference of Biqi and Black Diamond when they are hanging on trees.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 11:40:45 PM by bill_bayarea »

Elopez2027@aol.com

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2022, 04:21:44 AM »
Bio, please change my order to,
1 biqi
1 late grower
1 crystal
1 donkui
2 diamond
2 an Hai

Thank you

pinkturtle

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2022, 11:43:11 AM »
Good morning Bill,

Please add 2 X an Hai to my order.

Thanks,
Alex

kalan

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2022, 01:39:15 PM »
Hello, Bill. I'm in for round #2 if we can get trees in within a month. First 5 trees all showing signs of life and I think colder temps definitely helped with this successful shipment. Below is an image of one of my budding female Biq trees that traveled cross country to South Florida from Bill. Hoping round 2 goes as well as long as we ship before temperatures rise.

New order:
Black Diamond x2 female
Donkui x1 female
Donkui x1 male



pinkturtle

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2022, 01:54:18 PM »
Hi Kalan,

That is great for your Biqi success.  Can you share what you did?  All my trees didn't show any new grow

Thanks,
Al

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2022, 02:06:15 PM »
Well, Bill packed them in peat moss for the SFO to MIA transit. Upon arrival I immediately planted them in a mixture of homemade sterile media (I think 1/3 pine bark fines, 1/3 perlite, 1/3 peatmoss) after a brief soak in our local well water. Watered it lightly, stuck it in the garage (65-80F) and covered them all with a large bag for a couple weeks. Still keeping them inside so far and just watered them for a 2nd time this week. That Biqi is the best budding right now - the others are a little behind and 2 of them are just now getting small green buds.
Keith

pinkturtle

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2022, 02:36:54 PM »
Thanks Kalan,

🤞, There is enough of number of trees to process the order soon.  YangMei is best for transplant during spring and fall.  Spring is coming soon.


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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2022, 04:37:52 PM »
Hi Bill,  please update  my order. Thank you.

2 Biqi female
1 Crystal female
1 Dongkui female
2 Black Diamond female
1 An Hai Soft Silk female
1 BiQi male
1 Dongkui male


ronke47

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2022, 05:11:05 PM »
Hi Bill, sign me up for another crazy round!  Wish I were seeing the action that Kalan is but hope springs eternal.  And thank you for tackling this again.

I would like:

An Hai (soft silk) - Qty 2
An Hai male - Qty 1
Biqi - Qty 1
Biqi male - Qty 1
Black Diamond - Qty 1
Crystal - Qty 1
Dong Kui - Qty 1

bob_tu

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2022, 07:27:20 PM »
Can you add 4x Black Diamond to my order.
Thanks.

Hey Bill, can you remove 2x Black Diamonds trees.
And add 2x An Hai( Soft Silk) to my order.

Thanks

CarolinaZone

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2022, 07:41:26 PM »
Bill, please add 2 An Hai to my order. Here is my updated list:
2x Biqi Female
1   Biqi Male
2x Dongkui Female
2x Crystal Female
2x Late Growing Female
2 An Hai Female

bill_bayarea

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2022, 10:37:11 PM »
Updated order changes for the requests in the thread or from email. Please double check, shall you find the variety or quantity is not correct. Please let me know.

shmojojojo

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2022, 11:59:18 PM »
Hello Bill. Update for my order.

1 Biqi F
1 Crystal F
1 Dongkui F
1 Black Diamond F
1 Biqi M

Thanks

CarolinaZone

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2022, 07:44:45 AM »
Have we settled on the fact that Black Diamond is a unique cultivar and is not another name for Biqi? If yes here is my updated list.

2x Biqi Female
1x Biqi Male
2x Dongkui Female
2x Crystal Female
2x Late Growing Female
2x An Hai Female
2x Black Diamond female
Thank you for your patience Bill.

bill_bayarea

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2022, 01:28:37 PM »
Have we settled on the fact that Black Diamond is a unique cultivar and is not another name for Biqi? If yes here is my updated list.

2x Biqi Female
1x Biqi Male
2x Dongkui Female
2x Crystal Female
2x Late Growing Female
2x An Hai Female
2x Black Diamond female
Thank you for your patience Bill.

 To CarolinaZone and all other members, for sure, it is a unique cultivar.

 Many growers and vendors put these two in different categories. I notice that there are many different sayings about the Biqi
and Black Carbon from consumers, some of them do not know exactly. in this situation, I tend to believe growers and vendors.

 Here are a couple of sites I found on internet.
    This grower in another province in China put Biqi and Blank Diamond under different category in their introduction.
   【荸荠种杨梅】Biqi: http://www.hnshuncheng.com/productdetail.html?id=201
   【大黑炭杨梅 黑碳杨梅】Black Diamond ( Big Black Carbon, Blank Carbon) http://www.hnshuncheng.com/productdetail.html?id=202

  There is another page in Chinese Yangmei forum talking about the difference of Biqi and Black Diamond with a live video.
【给你看看栽种四年开始结果的大黑炭和荸荠杨梅 - 杨梅论坛 - 水果邦农人之家】http://bbs.shuiguobang.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=442774&page=1

  From what I learned from all the resources, Biqi is small version of Black Carbon, although many consumers think they are same thing; while Black Diamond(黑炭) is bigger than Biqi in size.
 
  I believe the grower that is going to provide the trees this time does not just want to make fancy name but sell same variety.

 Actually I had talked to the grower some weeks before I decided to start the first round of group order. At that time she offered me four varieties: DongKui(东魁), Crystal(水晶), Biqi(荸荠), and Black Diamond(黑炭). I just wanted to buy 8, two of each variety for myself and one of my physician friends, and offered her $800 + shipping cost if she could make it to send them to USA in whatever format. Due to the regulation of agriculture product export, she could not make it. That's the background that we started our own first group order with another vendor which has the export permit.

 Let's see if we can achieve the number 500 in the second round. But if we can not make it, we can still try again in the winter.

 


« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 01:40:40 PM by bill_bayarea »

bill_bayarea

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2022, 01:36:36 PM »
Hello, Bill. I'm in for round #2 if we can get trees in within a month. First 5 trees all showing signs of life and I think colder temps definitely helped with this successful shipment. Below is an image of one of my budding female Biq trees that traveled cross country to South Florida from Bill. Hoping round 2 goes as well as long as we ship before temperatures rise.

New order:
Black Diamond x2 female
Donkui x1 female
Donkui x1 male


Great, give you a big thumb!

beicadad

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2022, 05:18:22 PM »
Have we settled on the fact that Black Diamond is a unique cultivar and is not another name for Biqi? If yes here is my updated list.

2x Biqi Female
1x Biqi Male
2x Dongkui Female
2x Crystal Female
2x Late Growing Female
2x An Hai Female
2x Black Diamond female
Thank you for your patience Bill.

 To CarolinaZone and all other members, for sure, it is a unique cultivar.

 Many growers and vendors put these two in different categories. I notice that there are many different sayings about the Biqi
and Black Carbon from consumers, some of them do not know exactly. in this situation, I tend to believe growers and vendors.

 Here are a couple of sites I found on internet.
    This grower in another province in China put Biqi and Blank Diamond under different category in their introduction.
   【荸荠种杨梅】Biqi: http://www.hnshuncheng.com/productdetail.html?id=201
   【大黑炭杨梅 黑碳杨梅】Black Diamond ( Big Black Carbon, Blank Carbon) http://www.hnshuncheng.com/productdetail.html?id=202

  There is another page in Chinese Yangmei forum talking about the difference of Biqi and Black Diamond with a live video.
【给你看看栽种四年开始结果的大黑炭和荸荠杨梅 - 杨梅论坛 - 水果邦农人之家】http://bbs.shuiguobang.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=442774&page=1

  From what I learned from all the resources, Biqi is small version of Black Carbon, although many consumers think they are same thing; while Black Diamond(黑炭) is bigger than Biqi in size.
 
  I believe the grower that is going to provide the trees this time does not just want to make fancy name but sell same variety.

 Actually I had talked to the grower some weeks before I decided to start the first round of group order. At that time she offered me four varieties: DongKui(东魁), Crystal(水晶), Biqi(荸荠), and Black Diamond(黑炭). I just wanted to buy 8, two of each variety for myself and one of my physician friends, and offered her $800 + shipping cost if she could make it to send them to USA in whatever format. Due to the regulation of agriculture product export, she could not make it. That's the background that we started our own first group order with another vendor which has the export permit.

 Let's see if we can achieve the number 500 in the second round. But if we can not make it, we can still try again in the winter.

Hi Bill,

Big black carbon(大黑炭)is totally different from black carbon (黑炭). The former more reddish and larger, and the latter is the same as Biqi. Both are legit varieties, but they are totally different

You posted a chinese page describing “big black carbon”, and it does not mention anything about it being the same as black carbon, and then you equate “big black carbon” as “black carbon”. This just creates more confusion for the community.

Where did you find chinese description of “black diamond” (黑钻石)? Why did you keep calling webpages showing only black carbon or big black carbon as describing “black diamond”? This just adds to the confusion.

I want to clarify

- big black carbon is a legit variety, but is totally different from black carbon. It’s reddish, larger than Biqi/black carbon but regarded by many as less tasty compared to Biqi.

- black carbon/charcoal is same as Biqi, very dark, small, sweet fruits

- black diamond is marketing gimmick. I don’t know what it is. I didn’t see any legit site mentioning this name

« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 05:22:24 PM by beicadad »

beicadad

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2022, 11:26:55 PM »
Bill, really not trying to be difficult. I applaud your effort to bring more trees to the community. I just want to reduce confusion about the varieties as much as possible.

If you just use big black carbon instead of black carbon, it will be much better. You don’t have to agree with me on whether Biqi is black carbon, but big black carbon is different from black carbon.

It’s good that you are bringing in more varieties, including “big black carbon”. Wish you good luck!

ManVFruit

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Re: 2022 Second Yangmei (Myrica Rubra) Group Order(Tentative)
« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2022, 12:27:43 AM »
Bill, really not trying to be difficult. I applaud your effort to bring more trees to the community. I just want to reduce confusion about the varieties as much as possible.

If you just use big black carbon instead of black carbon, it will be much better. You don’t have to agree with me on whether Biqi is black carbon, but big black carbon is different from black carbon.

It’s good that you are bringing in more varieties, including “big black carbon”. Wish you good luck!

beicadad, its good to bring more information to the table, but in my opinion this will not be resolved here on the forum, it will take time and we need to allow time for it to fruit here in the US. In my experience growers outside of US are way more relaxed when it comes to IDs and plant varieties, not necessary due to bad intent; just culturally are more relaxed about it. I am personally with you when it comes to varieties and the importance of identifying them properly; they can quickly get out of hand.  Considering the circumstances and the price I think $45 is well worth the risk, one day we get to verify for certainty.

With that said, Bill I would like to order the following please:

1 Biqi
1 DongKui
1 Black Diamond
1 An Hai (soft silk)
1 BQ Male

 

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