Author Topic: Patience  (Read 4696 times)

HIfarm

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Patience
« on: October 20, 2015, 02:31:16 PM »
I have found that patience is a definite virtue with tropical seeds, especially those from Africa.  Many tropical seeds have very limited lives and if they do not germinate soon, they do not germinate.  I am finding some African seeds only germinating after very long times.  I have some Thaumatococcus danielii just starting to germinate now after about 1 1/2 yrs.  Gnetum africanum took 1 to 1 1/4 yrs (& only about 15% germination at that point).  I also had some Afromomum just starting after over 1 yr.  Not sure why it took so long, what finally prompted them to germinate, or how long they would ultimately be viable.  The bottom line is, if they don't rot, don't throw them out.  I also had some Jollydora sp that started to germinate within a couple of months, get planted in soil, & not show any signs of growth (above soil) for about 9 months or so.

The seeds referenced above have been kept in damp sphagnum. 

John

buddyguygreen

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Re: Patience
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2015, 03:10:11 PM »
yes patience is a virtue. My kepel seeds took well over a year, so far thats the longest ive waited, and im glad i did.  Tropical fruit anything requires lots of patience, thats why its nice to have bananas, papayas, passion fruit and the like to buffer a bit in the mean time. Maybe even temperate like melons and berries always helps with the patience as the waiting is in process.

huertasurbanas

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Re: Patience
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2015, 03:42:15 PM »
patience is bitter but its fruit is sweeter!

HIfarm

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Re: Patience
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2015, 04:25:51 PM »
yes patience is a virtue. My kepel seeds took well over a year, so far thats the longest ive waited, and im glad i did.  Tropical fruit anything requires lots of patience, thats why its nice to have bananas, papayas, passion fruit and the like to buffer a bit in the mean time. Maybe even temperate like melons and berries always helps with the patience as the waiting is in process.

The topic of kepel came up before.  I commented on how long it took them to germinate (I think my first ones finally appeared above ground at about a year) & someone commented that they actually germinate relatively quickly but there is no above ground growth for a long time, only roots.  Not sure if that is true or not (those were planted in forestry tubes, not germinated in a baggy).  I had gotten mine from Oscar & I think I ultimately got close to 100% germination but it was a long wait.

John

fruitlovers

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Re: Patience
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2015, 05:40:55 PM »
I have found that patience is a definite virtue with tropical seeds, especially those from Africa.  Many tropical seeds have very limited lives and if they do not germinate soon, they do not germinate.  I am finding some African seeds only germinating after very long times.  I have some Thaumatococcus danielii just starting to germinate now after about 1 1/2 yrs.  Gnetum africanum took 1 to 1 1/4 yrs (& only about 15% germination at that point).  I also had some Afromomum just starting after over 1 yr.  Not sure why it took so long, what finally prompted them to germinate, or how long they would ultimately be viable.  The bottom line is, if they don't rot, don't throw them out.  I also had some Jollydora sp that started to germinate within a couple of months, get planted in soil, & not show any signs of growth (above soil) for about 9 months or so.

The seeds referenced above have been kept in damp sphagnum. 

John

Generally speaking the tropical seeds with hard exterior coating can take a very long time to germinate. The seeds with thinner exterior coating and higher moisture content need to germinate fast or they rot or dry out.
Oscar

HIfarm

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Re: Patience
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2015, 11:25:24 PM »
My last Thaumatoccocus seed has finally germinated.  Sources I have seen usually rate germination as "poor" or "low" for this species but I eventually got 100% germination (I think it was only a dozen seeds) but it took a long time and germination was erratic.

John

mikemap

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Re: Patience
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2015, 02:12:45 PM »
Is moist sphagnum a universally good medium for germination? Any examples of seeds that should be germinated in something else?
Mike Parker: kefir fanatic, ethnomusicology hobbyist

FloridaFruitGeek

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Re: Patience
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2015, 04:28:10 PM »
Some seeds which in the wild normally pass through the digestive system of an animal can be very slow to germinate without this passage, or a simulation of it. I saw a report on how Enterolobium seeds extracted from horse manure germinate within days, while the same seeds planted straight from the seed pod took over a year to germinate, I think. For especially slow seeds, might be worth trying to figure if some animal normally eats those seeds in the wild, and if there is a way to simulate passage through that kind of animal.

HIfarm

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Re: Patience
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2015, 06:14:29 PM »
I have pretty much gone over to exclusively sphagnum now for sprouting but I would be interested in others' viewpoints.  Sphagnum is supposed to inhibit microbial growth but I still find some seeds determined to mold over, even after being given a peroxide soak.  I typically use only the better grades of NZ sphagnum.

John

Is moist sphagnum a universally good medium for germination? Any examples of seeds that should be germinated in something else?

stuartdaly88

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Re: Patience
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2015, 03:32:27 AM »
I have pretty much gone over to exclusively sphagnum now for sprouting but I would be interested in others' viewpoints.  Sphagnum is supposed to inhibit microbial growth but I still find some seeds determined to mold over, even after being given a peroxide soak.  I typically use only the better grades of NZ sphagnum.

John

Is moist sphagnum a universally good medium for germination? Any examples of seeds that should be germinated in something else?

Coco coir also seems to inhibit mold growth somewhat but yeah some seeds get moldy no matter what. I like coco coir cauz the mold doesnt spread to other seeds. I havnt tried sphagnum that much really maybe its worth a shot:)
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau

HIfarm

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Re: Patience
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2016, 03:02:25 PM »
Amazingly, another Gnetum africanum seed has germinated.  It is probably pushing two years now.  The remaining seeds are still firm so I am still not pitching them out. 

John

johnb51

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Re: Patience
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2016, 03:13:59 PM »
;D
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 09:36:06 AM by johnb51 »
John

Domnik

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Re: Patience
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 04:27:11 PM »
HIfarm, try with some palms or olives tree. Sometimes it takes 3-24 months to germinate. In my opinion most seeds with hard, woody schields germinate slowly. Its take long because moisture needs time to wake embryos.

Im sorry, but i have to write it: sphagnum and coco coir is not perfect because of very fast drying and is poor in terms of ingredients useful for plant (trace elements etc). It is better to mix it with some sand, perlite and vermiculite +mineral soil +compost to have really good soil.


High-speed germinating small seeds need a different soil than long germinating and large seeds. Its long story and need a long practice and patience to find good solutions.
Patience is a gardener's virtue

goosteen

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Re: Patience
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2016, 12:22:16 AM »
Some seeds which in the wild normally pass through the digestive system of an animal can be very slow to germinate without this passage, or a simulation of it. I saw a report on how Enterolobium seeds extracted from horse manure germinate within days, while the same seeds planted straight from the seed pod took over a year to germinate, I think. For especially slow seeds, might be worth trying to figure if some animal normally eats those seeds in the wild, and if there is a way to simulate passage through that kind of animal.


How would one simulate this?

Domnik

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Re: Patience
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2016, 05:38:45 AM »

Like FloridaFruitGeek write: some seeds (for example): adansonia digitata have to (or it is better when) pass through the digestive tract to be ready (to be germinated) . Of course we do not have to give seeds to eat animals. You can do this in a different way ( mechanically or chemically or even thermally) . We can do the same at home. Simulates this by soaking the seeds in acid or by removing the flesh mechanically using our hands (such as scarification) by put some seeds in hot water etc. For most tropical edible plants it is enough when you clean the seeds from the pulp.
Patience is a gardener's virtue

shafak

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Re: Patience
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2016, 11:33:18 AM »
Some seeds which in the wild normally pass through the digestive system of an animal can be very slow to germinate without this passage, or a simulation of it. I saw a report on how Enterolobium seeds extracted from horse manure germinate within days, while the same seeds planted straight from the seed pod took over a year to germinate, I think. For especially slow seeds, might be worth trying to figure if some animal normally eats those seeds in the wild, and if there is a way to simulate passage through that kind of animal.

How would one simulate this?

For Adansonia Digitata seeds - suggested methods of germination are:
1) Passing through the digestive system of elephants.
2) Pouring hot water on it.
3) Scarification - rubbing the seeds with sandpaper to reduce the coat's thickness.

I don't do any of the above.  I use the "patience" method.  Here's what I do.  I soak the seeds in water for about 2 weeks changing the water twice daily.  You will notice a slow and gradual increase in the size of the seeds as it soaks up the water.  After about 10 days to 2 weeks, the seeds would have bloated up.  After this, you can either sow it directly or use the paper towel method.  I have had almost 100% germination within a further 1 week.

luc

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Re: Patience
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2016, 05:44:12 PM »
yes patience is a virtue. My kepel seeds took well over a year, so far thats the longest ive waited, and im glad i did.  Tropical fruit anything requires lots of patience, thats why its nice to have bananas, papayas, passion fruit and the like to buffer a bit in the mean time. Maybe even temperate like melons and berries always helps with the patience as the waiting is in process.

I remember my first Kepel seeds ...after one year I thought they were not gonna sprout , so I checked some of the nursery-bags and discovered a thick long tuber-like root , thinking that some jungle seed got in the bags ( since I collect soil from the jungle ) I just threw them all away and started all over the next time I visited friends in Panama where I collected new seeds . That was over 10 years ago , now I have a beautiful 4 - 5 meter tree .

What pisses me of is caring / pampering some trees for a lot of years only to find out the seeds were mislabeled or the fruit is worthless .
Luc Vleeracker
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20 degrees north