Author Topic: Issue on leaves  (Read 5879 times)

Donkeys4hire

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Issue on leaves
« on: April 19, 2016, 07:37:27 PM »
I'm new to citrus trees. I noticed an issue on my cocktail tree leaves today. Issue is on grapefruit main  portion of the tree, lime and lemon do not have same issue. It is only on newest growth of recently planed tree. Tree has had new growth since being planted, witch was about 3-4 weeks ago. Here is a pic of the tree and a close up of leaf.




countryboy1981

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2016, 08:53:14 PM »
That's citrus leaf miner damage.  If you look closely and follow the trail, there will be a worm inside.  Kill it.

Donkeys4hire

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2016, 09:12:28 PM »
It's on a lot of leaves. Multiple worms or 1 that moves around? Any other treatments? Will tree recover.

Millet

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2016, 09:36:49 PM »
Multipule worms, one for every affected leaf.  Leafminer only attacks the new growth.   The most common chemical used for control is Spinosid.  There is a ton of information on the internet under "citrus leafminer'. - Millet

Tom

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2016, 09:39:22 PM »
It can look bad especially on young small citrus trees. Nothing you can do about it now. Most people are torn between taking off the affected leaves and burning them or putting them in a zip lock bag and putting it in the trash. Most people say the leaves are still partially functioning even when they look so bad. If it's over 1/2 of your leaves you have something of a delemia ! Sorta dangled if you do and danced if you don't but I think your tree will be fine. The clm looks worst than it is but it can be a serious problem with small citrus trees. In that case I'd treat aggressively with a systemic and also spray like Millet said above but I'd also destroy all fruit that year because I would not want to eat the fruit for fear of insecticide ridden fruit. By treating aggressively I mean using the systemic insecticide more times than labeled (only 1 time is labeled) to save the tree. I'd also spray Spinosid as needed. Tom
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 09:43:36 PM by Tom »

willowwater

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2016, 10:17:56 PM »
I have tried a systemic insecticide on all my in-ground citrus with disappointing results. Potted plants, better results. However the only thing that seems to work reasonably well for me is to spray the emerging new leaves with Seven or something similar (I think Neem works also) and continue to spray once a week or so until the leaves harden off. You can also test spray the young leaves of any three that seem particularly prone to bug bites. 

bsbullie

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2016, 08:22:55 AM »
In South Florida, it is a year round battle with leaf miner.  I recommended to drenching the tree, and any other citrus you have, with imidacloprid 3 times a year.  The affected leaves will not change but the new flushes should come out clean.  I would also add to your regime to spray with copper fungicide.
- Rob

buddinman

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2016, 08:29:36 AM »
The small leaf miner moth is now active. As soon as my trees are through blooming I plan on spraying ever 2 to 3 weeks. After they are in the tissue of the leaf they cannot be controlled. I am in SE Texas. Last winter was very mild, this is the earliest that I have seen them.

Donkeys4hire

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2016, 03:23:13 PM »
Is there any natural remedies?

fyliu

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2016, 08:35:26 PM »
Is there any natural remedies?
No, you either use imidacloprid drench or spray it with somethings (spinosad is considered "Organic") like other posters said above. I'm sure the natural predators are already thinning out the leaf miner population, or in this case, too slow to do it.

bsbullie

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2016, 11:23:18 PM »
Is there any natural remedies?
No, you either use imidacloprid drench or spray it with somethings (spinosad is considered "Organic") like other posters said above. I'm sure the natural predators are already thinning out the leaf miner population, or in this case, too slow to do it.

No natural predators here.  Leaf miner has been a mainstay problem with citrus here for years.  Untreated, I dont tthink i have seen a tree go undamaged.
- Rob

BahamaDan

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2016, 03:15:36 PM »
In South Florida, it is a year round battle with leaf miner.  I recommended to drenching the tree, and any other citrus you have, with imidacloprid 3 times a year.  The affected leaves will not change but the new flushes should come out clean.  I would also add to your regime to spray with copper fungicide.

Are you using the same strength as per bottle directions, but 3 times a year, or a third as strong as one bottle-direction application but thrice yearly?

Donkeys4hire

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2016, 07:11:37 PM »
Would either of these work?

Biological Leafminer Destroyer
Citrus leafminer populations are frequently controlled by predatory insects, particularly parasitic wasps. You can purchase these non-stinging wasps from a garden supply store and release them directly on your citrus tree. The wasps control pest populations by laying eggs on the leafminer larvae. Newly hatched wasp larvae promptly start consuming their host leafminers. Help parasitic wasps easily spot their leafminer prey by regularly spraying the dust off citrus leaves with a strong blast of water from the garden hose. These beneficial insects enjoy feeding on the nectar and pollen produced by various members of the carrot (Apiaceae), mint (Lamiaceae) and aster (Asteraceae) families. Planting a few herbs or flowers from those families should encourage the wasps to hang around your outdoor areas.

Organic Insecticides
Spraying citrus trees with an organic pesticide can also help prevent citrus leafminer infestations. Organic pesticides contain only ingredients derived from plant or mineral sources. Although toxic, those natural chemicals break down in the environment more quickly than those commonly used in traditional pesticides. Honey bees are very susceptible to organic insecticides, so avoid spraying your citrus tree when you see them buzzing around the blooms. One botanical insecticide available to homeowners is neem oil, which comes from the neem tree and helps prevent adult moths from laying eggs on the foliage. Following the safety precautions and application instructions on the product's label, thoroughly mix about 2 tablespoons of neem oil into a gallon of water. Spray the undersides and tops of leaves until they glisten with wetness. Treat your citrus tree with neem oil once a week during every flush cycle for optimal results.

From site.
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/prevent-leaf-miners-citrus-trees-organically-86661.html

Millet

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2016, 09:56:06 PM »
People sometimes do use neem oil for various citrus tree problems, mostly against aphids, scale and mealybugs.  Neem oil works poorly for citrus leaf miner.   You can use wasps if you like - but good luck with that. - Millet

Tom

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2016, 11:04:29 PM »
I sprayed imadaclorpid for aphids and scale one year and I had my worse leaf miner problem later that year. My trees were smaller and after reading lots of info I decided I must have killed off all the beneficial insects as well as bad bugs. Then the bad bugs bounced back faster than the beneficials. I didn't see the increase in leaf miner moths and soon my leaves looked terrible. The trees didn't have a huge crop but they were pretty small. Maybe 6 or seven years old and probably had been in the ground 3 years. Since then I usually use imadaclorpid as a drench only once between the first and second flush and I have not had as much of a problem. Some leaf miner damage does still occur but it doesn't look too bad. I usually do the drench only once or even not at all. After all I'm eating this stuff and giving it away to friends. My trees are big now and I've had lots of fruit. I'm pretty sure I didn't drench at all last year.

Three different times at the labeled rate would be what I'd do if I had small trees and a history of heavy damage from leaf miners. I probably would not eat any fruit that year from those little trees. If I had a good sized tree I would drench one time if I wanted to clean up the next generation of leaf miner because you can't hurt them when they have already gotten into the leaf. It takes a while for the drench to work its way into the leaves and the leaf miner doesn't get into older mature ( tough ) leaves. They like the tender leaves as they flush ( it seems to me ).

I've had good luck using horticultural oil at about 1 % solution with water after the fruit gets some size on it. Not with blooms or at pin head sized fruit and only if I have too much scale or aphids. If temps are over 85 * F I spray late afternoon right before dark and I've never had a problem. The first time or second time it was pretty hot at night and I sprayed water on my leaves first thing in the morning for fear of leaf drop. The leaves were fine and the bugs were suffocated ! I don't like neam oil as well because it smells bad to me ! 
Tom
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 11:15:07 PM by Tom »

bsbullie

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2016, 11:18:08 PM »
For best results, Imidacloprid should be applied as a drench, not a spray.  Remember,  its a systemic.   By spraying its effect on leaf miner will be short lived.

Three times a year, label strength, applied as a drench.  In other climates you may be able to get away with twice a year.
- Rob

Donkeys4hire

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2016, 08:50:02 AM »
Thanks Tom and Rob. This is my first Citrus tree. Just want to have a healthy tree and be able to eat the fruit in the future.

Millet

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2016, 06:28:22 PM »
Imidacloprid On Citrus & Cotton EPA Chooses Activists Over Science
Written by Dr. Henry Miller MD

http://acsh.org/news/2016/04/21/on-cotton-and-citrus-epa-chooses-activists-over-science/

Millet
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 06:31:18 PM by Millet »

countryboy1981

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2016, 08:35:21 AM »
Is there any natural remedies?
No, you either use imidacloprid drench or spray it with somethings (spinosad is considered "Organic") like other posters said above. I'm sure the natural predators are already thinning out the leaf miner population, or in this case, too slow to do it.

No natural predators here.  Leaf miner has been a mainstay problem with citrus here for years.  Untreated, I dont tthink i have seen a tree go undamaged.

I have two citrus trees they have not touched period, centennial kumquat and variegated pink lemon
  They do not touch variegated citrus leaves.

bsbullie

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2016, 01:00:23 PM »
Is there any natural remedies?
No, you either use imidacloprid drench or spray it with somethings (spinosad is considered "Organic") like other posters said above. I'm sure the natural predators are already thinning out the leaf miner population, or in this case, too slow to do it.

No natural predators here.  Leaf miner has been a mainstay problem with citrus here for years.  Untreated, I dont tthink i have seen a tree go undamaged.

I have two citrus trees they have not touched period, centennial kumquat and variegated pink lemon
  They do not touch variegated citrus leaves.

For the most part that is correct.   Most insect axoid variegated leaves.  I have seen very minor leaf miner damage on the Centennial and Pink Lemon.
- Rob

Doglips

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2016, 01:15:42 PM »
People sometimes do use neem oil for various citrus tree problems, mostly against aphids, scale and mealybugs.  Neem oil works poorly for citrus leaf miner.   You can use wasps if you like - but good luck with that. - Millet

I've had success using neem for CLM, maybe it is not the best at it, but I have had success.  The problem with neem is that in the Summer you deep fry your leaves in neem oil.

laidbackdood

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2016, 12:01:11 PM »
what about white oil? is that actually neem oil or something different?...........you can buy white oil in spray cans over here......i have tried several sprays for citrus leaf miner and they are still causing  trouble with the new growth......but then i caught 6 snails on lemonade the other night and shes only small........they were sent packing.

Tropheus76

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Re: Issue on leaves
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2016, 02:57:07 PM »
They aren't as bad as on my lemon or shiranui trees, but both of my variegated citrus do have citrus miner damage. My red pummalo and a large tree that was on my property when I bought it seem to have zero CLM damage with no treatment. No clue why. I have noticed my key lime initially had damage pretty bad but as it got much bigger the damage seemed smaller and less pronounced, now I don't even notice it.