Author Topic: Growing Mango trees in Southern California  (Read 93518 times)

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #525 on: November 21, 2020, 11:19:39 AM »
I thought I would finally post some photos of a few of my mango trees after good 2020 growth. All but the Lemon Zest were grafted to Manila mango seedling. The LZ was grafted to a small Ataulfo mango seeding from seed. The trees below were grafted in late summer 2016 to late 2018. None of the Zill trees are seedlings. Only the rootstocks are seedling mango trees. I have no Turpentine rootstock trees in the ground.

Simon has been a big help over the years and first got me started grafting mangos in 2016. Thanks, Simon. Since I live in coastal So Cal (4-5 miles from the ocean) we do not receive as much heat and our growth is slower than the more inland areas with higher summer temperatures.

My coconut Cream mango tree required extensive shaping and trimming this year to keep more of the growth vertical. New growth has a strong tendency to grow sideways and downward. I cut these off to force up new vertical shoots.

The last two photos are of my young Brewster Lychee tree I just planted in July 2020 and the Molix Sapodilla planted in 2018. 


Coconut Cream Grafted in 2016.


Mallika-Nam Doc Mai. Grafted 2016-2018


Nam Doc Mai Grafted in 2016


Lemon Zest Grafted in late 2017


Sweet Tart Grafted in Late 2016


Brewster Lychee Tree


Molix Sapodilla Tree Planted in 2018

Beautiful trees. What are you currently fertilizing them with? My Alano sapodilla was about a 1.5' grafted tree when I bought it two years ago. It's grown about 6" in that time.  ;D

I've grown fond of it even though I realize it will just be an ornamental shrub and I will need to buy another larger tree to start with.

John B, if your Alano Sapodilla only grew several inches in two years, youíre probably not fertilizing or watering it enough. I got an Alano About 1.5 years ago and it was just a whip about two feet tall with side branches just starting to grow. It has consistently put on growth and although it is not a vigorous grower, it has gotten significantly larger. Itís probably around 4 feet tall and 4 feet wide now. It started out about two feet tall and maybe 6 inches wide with the new side branches when I got it.

Mass wise, itís probably 10-15 times larger than when I got it. Although Sapodillas are drought tolerant once established, they like water for growth assuming you have decent draining soil.

I believe my tree grew decently because I fertilized heavily. Sapodillas are pretty salt tolerant.



If you fertilize mangos in a greenhouse, be sure you donít get too much salt buildup in the bottom of the pot or else you can get nutrient lock.

If you grow organically, beware of fungus gnats when using organic fertilizers.

If you have a small greenhouse or tent, beware that too much fertilizer can push your tree to get too tall and it may hit the roof  before the weather gets warm enough to transition to the outside.

Simon


Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #526 on: November 21, 2020, 01:11:53 PM »
I believe Simon is correct about Sapdodilla trees. I have included (4) photos for comparison. I purchased a number of Sapodilla Trees in 2017 including an Alano and Molix. You can see for yourself the difference in growth between June of 2017 and Nov of 2019 in my Alano. I have since sold my Alano since I successfully grafted three scions from this tree onto my Tikal sapodilla which was already in the ground.

My Molix sapodilla tree has grown quite well in the three years I have had it. You can see the photo from 2017 and another one was just taken recently.

Johnny



Alano Sapodilla 6-3-2017


Alano Sapodilla Tree 11-15-2019


Molix Sapodilla Tree 6-3-2017


Molix Sapodilla Tree11-18-2020

John B

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #527 on: November 21, 2020, 11:45:16 PM »
Thank you Simon and Johnny. I certainly have neglected my plants the last couple of years! I've under ferted all of my plants as I do not have them on a schedule any more. That is now changing with the kids getting a bit older. But, I think that the main issue is my placement of the little tree.

I bought it as a recent graft from Ongs in April 2019. I did not think about sun orientation when I planted it. Even though we have a south facing house, there is significant shading from October to February at this specific area of my yard which I think is limiting growth. I will likely keep it as a decorative tree and take grafts later (thanks for the idea Johnny). You can see from the pictures the minimal growth. It still looks healthy and is consistently watered.

Also, I did amend about the top 12" of the soil with compost and pumice when I was installing my succulents, so drainage is not an issue.


Picture when I first bought it (sorry only picture I had):


Today Nov. 2020




FV Fruit Freak

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #528 on: November 29, 2020, 11:45:52 AM »
Hey Nate,

Iím the adventurous type so my personal opinion is that if you spent the time to grow out a seedling, you might as well let it fruit to see what you have. Who knows, you may chance upon a new flavor profile or just get super lucky with an amazing tasting fruit.

It is highly unlikely that you will get a super amazing fruit but there is a good possibility that you get a decent tasting fruit. My friend Margot grew out a tree from seed about 20-25 years ago and here tree is very productive with good tasting fruit. Itís not top tier but itís a good fruit in the same league as Kent, Glenn, Vp etc...

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=21350.msg261001#msg261001

Leo Manuel also planted out many seedlings and he has made a number of selections from them. Not all the seedlings were keepers but the ones he kept are quite good and very disease resistant.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.0

Nate, not all seedlings are the same. With Polyembryonic mangos, there is a significantly higher chance of good quality fruit from the seedling because there is a high probability of getting a clone. With Polyembryonic mango seedlings, there is also the probability of getting the zygotic seedling but the zygotic seedling may be selfed, meaning it was pollinated by itself.

This selfed seedling is Not a clone even though all of its genetic material came from itself. The zygotic seedling is the result of sexual reproduction so there were rearrangements of its genetic material. This is a possible explanation for how Lemon Zest and Orange Sherbet were selected from Po Pyu Kalay seedlings.

I highly recommend that us SoCal mango growers grow out Polyembryonic seeds from varieties like Sweet Tart, Orange Sherbet, COC and NDM as their number one choice for rootstocks. I recommend these even over Lavern Manilla.

Monoembryonic seedlings are also excellent as rootstocks but you are much less likely to get excellent fruit from them. Monoembryonic seedlings are highly variable from the research I have done. Monoembryonic seedlings usually start out as bigger plants as soon as they sprout because they get the energy fro the whole seed unlike Polyembryonic seedlings.

Simon


THANK YOU for the awesome, informative reply Simon! Hereís a pic of one of my seedlings (Kent) itís got 3 branches scaffolding out.

If I graft onto just one branch I wonder if it will slow the growth of the rest of the tree down? I do plan on growing out the other branches to see if I hit the lotto and wind up with a good tasting seedling fruit.

(ps if anyone knows how to rotate pictures please send me pm, thx)
Nate

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #529 on: November 29, 2020, 11:48:22 PM »
Hey Nate, if you graft one of the branches with mature scion, it will significantly slow down the growth of your plant. This is because, generally speaking, the scion is what determines the maturity of the grafted branch. The branch that is grafted with mature scion will flower once nightly average lows are below about 61-62F. The non grafted branches will likely Not flower however the grafted branch will so it will be pulling energy from the trees resources.

The energy spent on flowering, which in SoCal can last upwards of 6 months, is taken away from the vegetative growth. This not only affects your plant for the first year or two but it will affect you rootstock variety until it naturally reaches sexual maturity.

I would advise that you donít graft your tree until it is approaching the final size you would like to keep your tree.
Simon

John B

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #530 on: November 30, 2020, 10:54:15 PM »
With our ongoing warm weather and non-existent rainfall, are you folks watering your mango trees right now? I get worried about over or under watering my more tropical trees.

spaugh

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #531 on: November 30, 2020, 10:58:10 PM »
Yes you need to water still its been super low humidity.  Dont let the soil ever completely dry out.  My timer is going once a week and if its crazy dry and windy, water more.  Like in the coming days its going to get bad again and will need another shot of water. 
Brad Spaugh

Goyo626

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #532 on: December 02, 2020, 02:10:49 PM »
Is it a good time to plant a mango tree right now? I usually wait until spring but im wondering if getting it in ground earlier will allow for the roots to develop before the first growth spurt in spring.

Also what is the lower limit of temp that a newly planted mango tree withstand?

Thanks.

palingkecil

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #533 on: December 02, 2020, 08:55:21 PM »
Same question with Goyo here.

CA Hockey

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #534 on: December 02, 2020, 10:10:16 PM »
No, keep overwinter in pot with minimal watering, protect from wind, and plant in March or April. Die back from freeze and fungus typically shows in March first.

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #535 on: December 03, 2020, 08:57:23 AM »
You can plant young mango trees now in December with no problem but there will be no growth since night temperatures are in the 40's and daylight hours are short. As long as we do not get any freezing temperatures young mango trees will be ok, but they may not look great.

If you plant outside Feb-March is a good time as the trees start to wake up a bit.

I keep all of my young mango trees in a greenhouse as I can keep the temperature up and get growth flushes even in mid-winter.

Johnny
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 08:59:12 AM by Johnny Eat Fruit »

CA Hockey

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #536 on: December 03, 2020, 09:25:36 AM »
Let me clarify - yes you can plant now but I don't recommend it. The plant won't grow (much... Some of my in ground are still flushing or started to flower) but the disease pressures are high and it's much easier for me to control in pots than in ground hooked up to irrigation. A few years ago I lost 1/3 of my mangos before spring started. For me it's just easier to keep protected and on the dry side (don't overwater).

Goyo626

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #537 on: December 03, 2020, 09:31:05 AM »
Thanks for the responses hockey and johnny. I was hoping that early planting would allow for root development, which would allow the tree to flush out immediately. But it seems the wiser move is to keep it in its pot waiting for warmer weather.

FV Fruit Freak

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #538 on: December 05, 2020, 12:12:09 PM »
Hey Nate, if you graft one of the branches with mature scion, it will significantly slow down the growth of your plant. This is because, generally speaking, the scion is what determines the maturity of the grafted branch. The branch that is grafted with mature scion will flower once nightly average lows are below about 61-62F. The non grafted branches will likely Not flower however the grafted branch will so it will be pulling energy from the trees resources.

The energy spent on flowering, which in SoCal can last upwards of 6 months, is taken away from the vegetative growth. This not only affects your plant for the first year or two but it will affect you rootstock variety until it naturally reaches sexual maturity.

I would advise that you donít graft your tree until it is approaching the final size you would like to keep your tree.
Simon

Thanks a lot Simon! Iíll let patience be my virtue and wait for the seedlings to get bigger and then, watch out sweet tart and lemon zest scions...Iím coming for you! Happy gardening Simon! Cheers
Nate

MarinaGasolina

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #539 on: December 17, 2020, 02:10:47 PM »
This is such a helpful thread! I just bought a manila mango tree 5 gal and I'm concerned that my yard will be too dry for it. My yard is a south facing clay slope in Los Angeles, so I have good drainage and nearly constant sunlight year round, lowest temps are around 40 degrees. I'm attracted to fruit trees because they don't require supplemental water after a certain point. I read in this thread that mangoes are considered drought tolerant, but the tag on the tree says to maintain moderately moist soil. So my question is, at what point (if any) can I taper off watering the tree?

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #540 on: December 19, 2020, 06:12:03 PM »
You can taper off watering once your tree is fully established. When you first plant your tree, itís best to keep it well hydrated as it adapts to the new soil. In Southern California where we donít get much rain, you will likely need to irrigate consistently while the tree is holding/maturing fruit.

In SoCal, Iíve seen 10x more people killing their mango trees by overwatering than by under watering.

In the Winter, which is our rainy season in SoCal, I rarely water my in ground mango trees unless we go without rain for 2-3 weeks.

Simon

MarinaGasolina

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #541 on: December 19, 2020, 08:10:31 PM »
Good to know, appreciate the response. Looks like this winter is gonna be pretty dry.

HDuong

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #542 on: December 21, 2020, 11:43:31 AM »
can someone help me to buy scions of "cat hoa loc"?, please?

simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #543 on: December 22, 2020, 08:40:55 PM »
Right now is not a good time to graft mango trees. In the Spring or Summer, check with tropical acres nursery.

https://www.tropicalacresfarms.com/

Simon

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #544 on: December 22, 2020, 09:36:34 PM »
You can graft now only if you have a heated greenhouse otherwise forget it, baby. It's a waste of time and money. The temperature is too cold. 

The best time to graft outdoors is in July-August in California.

Johnny

sapote

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #545 on: December 23, 2020, 03:34:37 PM »

Mallika-Nam Doc Mai. Grafted 2016-2018

Hi Johnny,

This grafted tree is interesting that it seems to have only one main trunk graft, not multiple branches grafts as I have for my trees. Did you use clef for the main trunk, or veneer graft as in Walter Zill video? It seems almost impossible to do a clef graft on the big trunk, and so did you graft on a young tree or on an mature already fruited tree?

UplanderCA

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #546 on: April 01, 2021, 10:59:03 PM »
Hello Everyone,
I was doing some spring cleaning around the yard today and was pleasantly surprised to see that my NDM seeds I planted last October sprouted and survived the winter.  The seeds were planted in 3 gallon planters and placed underneath a lemon tree against the house.  They were kind of hidden and covered with leaves.  There are multiple seedlings in each pot.  Should I keep the strongest seedling or try to separate and save them all?  I noticed that there were a few other seedlings that didn't make it.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Tony



simon_grow

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #547 on: April 03, 2021, 02:40:03 AM »
I would separate the seedlings and plant the strongest and the second strongest seedling. I donít know which is the clone but at least youíll have the two strongest plants out of that seed and one of the seedlings is very likely to be the clone.

I believe one member mentioned that for NDM, itís not the strongest seedling thatís the clone. I believe that member was from Thailand but I donít know how many seedlings he grew out.

If you have the room, plant all the seedlings and youíll have back ups to practice grafting on. Maybe top work one to Sweet Tart, Cotton Candy, CAC, Orange Sherbet or if you want more compact, Pina Colada.

Simon

UplanderCA

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #548 on: April 06, 2021, 12:51:27 AM »
Hello Simon,

Thank-you for the information.  The NDM seedlings are all pushing new growth.  My NDM tree appears to be a dwarf/semi-dwarf tree - almost as wide as tall (10ft.)  It's been in the ground for 6 years and has produced well.  Just to confirm, anything grafted to a dwarf/semi-dwarf rootstock will be a slow grower or small tree (under 12 feet).  Does Pina Colada do well in So. Cal?  I was looking to graft the Pina Colada onto the NDM tree this year.

Tony

K-Rimes

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Re: Growing Mango trees in Southern California
« Reply #549 on: April 07, 2021, 12:07:16 PM »





It would appear this Valencia pride seedling is flowering. It is 2 years old.