Author Topic: Lychee grafted onto Longan? (Read 61004 times)

simon_grow · « **on:** February 09, 2012, 04:14:25 PM »

In an effort to try and improve the growth rate of my Lychee plants, I started to wonder if Lychees can be grafted onto Longan. I did a google search and found this
http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-horticulture/fruit/Tropical-And-Subtropical-Fruits/Litchi-Propagation.html . Higgin's has supposedly crown grafted Lychee onto Longan and even more exciting is that he observed that the stock appeared to show influence on the Lychee scion and produced more rapid growth than Lychee growing on its own rootstock. Higgin's also noted that in some cases, the grafted Lychee foliage seems to undergo a change!

The increased growth rate is very exciting and the changes in the foliage may be beneficial if the Longan can impart its wind tolerance to the Lychee. If the grafted Lychee does show some Longan characteristics, I wonder if it will affect the characteristics of the fruit as well, which can be a bad thing.

Has anyone attempted to graft Lychee onto Longan? I will be planting some Lychee seeds this year in hopes that I can innarch the seedlings onto my named cultivars to produce multiple rootstock Lychees.
Simon

nullzero · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2012, 04:21:09 PM »

Very interesting, I have always heard that Lychee's were very hard to graft. If Lychee's can be grafted to Longan, it would make Lychee's much more California friendly. It seems the Lychee leaves are not as thick and tolerant of the arid climate, compared to Longan leaves.

FlyingFoxFruits · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2012, 04:21:44 PM »

Quote from: simon_grow on February 09, 2012, 04:14:25 PM

In an effort to try and improve the growth rate of my Lychee plants, I started to wonder if Lychees can be grafted onto Longan. I did a google search and found this
http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-horticulture/fruit/Tropical-And-Subtropical-Fruits/Litchi-Propagation.html . Higgin's has supposedly crown grafted Lychee onto Longan and even more exciting is that he observed that the stock appeared to show influence on the Lychee scion and produced more rapid growth than Lychee growing on its own rootstock. Higgin's also noted that in some cases, the grafted Lychee foliage seems to undergo a change!

The increased growth rate is very exciting and the changes in the foliage may be beneficial if the Longan can impart its wind tolerance to the Lychee. If the grafted Lychee does show some Longan characteristics, I wonder if it will affect the characteristics of the fruit as well, which can be a bad thing.

Has anyone attempted to graft Lychee onto Longan? I will be planting some Lychee seeds this year in hopes that I can innarch the seedlings onto my named cultivars to produce multiple rootstock Lychees.
Simon

Whitmans book, Five decades, I remember him saying that some grafted Alugpag, did much better than airlayers...so I'd imagine this could be possible with lychee/longan...I think he grafted alupag on to longan, if I recall correct...with out having a Sr.Member moment....lol...

HMHausman · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2012, 04:25:34 PM »

I've never tried it, but I assume it could be done. However, I wonder if it would really be worth the effort as longan and lychee seem to have about the same growth rate...at least at my house they do. I would also expect there would be some level, even if minute, of incompatibility. And of course, these are not the easiest trees to graft under any circumstances.

Harry

fruitlovers · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2012, 06:22:35 PM »

Because somebody did it doesn't mean it is easy to do. Lychee is kind of particular, preferring similar cultivars of lychee as rootstock for succesful grafts. So i'm guessing that lychee on longan is not an easy graft, and may show incompatibility issues at some point. But i would not be surprised that with some effort it could be done. After all lychee and longan can be cross pollinated to produce hybrid fruits. The hybrid fruits turn out sterile, but this has also been done, so these two plants are much more closely related than we may realize.
But as to alupag scion on longan, i think this is a lot easier, as these 2 are much more closely related than is lychee and longan.
Oscar

fruit4me · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2012, 01:54:07 AM »

Has anyone on this forum had success yet? I decided to give it a try by using my 2 year old longan seedling thats in a pot and inarched to my in ground maruitius lychee. This was done on July 4th and i plan to leave it on until winter to see if it takes.

Heres a picture

bradflorida · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2012, 07:24:15 AM »

I heard secondhand that the late bob Murray of treehouse nursery said that he experimented with grafting lychee onto longan and the only cultivar of lychee that succeeded was sweet cliff.

Brad

Jackfruitwhisperer69 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2012, 09:33:38 AM »

Quote from: fruit4me on July 28, 2012, 01:54:07 AM

Has anyone on this forum had success yet? I decided to give it a try by using my 2 year old longan seedling thats in a pot and inarched to my in ground maruitius lychee. This was done on July 4th and i plan to leave it on until winter to see if it takes.
Heres a picture

Hi Fruit4me,
Yes, you must let it be...till the union is totally formed. When approach graft a tree, I like to use approach-tongue graft to get a large area of cambium contact...never lost a plant with this method

Keep us posted

It will be most awesome to see a lychee successfully growing on a Longan rootstock

I got a few seedlings of longan that i collected seeds at the Botanical Garden, which i will use for grafting in spring with budwood from a top notch Longan tree at the B.T. From what i have read...is that shield-budding is very successful, Hopefully this method will be successful

simon_grow · « **Reply #8 on:** July 30, 2012, 07:40:00 PM »

Hey fruit4me, I ended up not trying this experiment because I do not have a lot of Lychee nor Longan material to work with. I believe Behlgarden attempted a Lychee grafted onto his in-ground Longan but the graft failed if I remember correctly. I believe you will have a better chance of success because with innarching, both stock and scions still have their roots. I believe the issue of incompatibility arrises when the stock and scion have different number of chromasomes. My memory is horrible but I remember reading somewhere that even Lychee grafted onto Lychee can fail because of the difference in the number of chromasomes. If you are lucky and both your stock and scion have the same number or chromasomes, you have a good chance of success with this graft.

Just be careful that you did not bind the tree so tightly as to girdle the plants. Normally this wouldn't be much of an issue but since your plan on leaving the two trees bound until Winter, it may be advisable to check your grafting sites occasionally or even un-bind and re-wrap your union after a month or two. When I innarched my Maha Chanok with my seedling mango, I almost lost both plants to girdling. I left my two trees bound for about 3 months and my tree is now doing great.
Simon

fruit4me · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:25:15 AM »

Simon,
Thanks for the advice, I will unwrap and re-wrap every two months and keep you guys posted.

Max

behlgarden · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2015, 11:39:17 AM »

any success to this? I am going to give this another try now as my Longan is pushing, it might be ideal time to try once more.

fruit4me · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2015, 12:34:37 PM »

Ive given up on this.

behlgarden · « **Reply #12 on:** February 05, 2015, 12:36:06 PM »

I read articles that wedge/cleft grafting does work very well on lychees. I am going to try it again. last time when I tried, the timing was not on my side. now, rootstocks of longan are active and pushing/getting ready to push, full of sap.

behlgarden · « **Reply #13 on:** June 12, 2015, 03:45:07 PM »

Looks like success here finally. Lychee on longan. this was mature wood, grafted on green longan trunk. Next I want to try green on green, need to find budwood that is actively pushing, I have two small Hakip plants but they suck in growth. not sure what I need to do to boost their growth.

fyliu · « **Reply #14 on:** June 12, 2015, 05:10:55 PM »

Great to see the progress.

If it's the Hak Ip from me, it's partly because the plant's been in that 1 gallon pot for 2 years after I took it off the mother tree while I looked for someone to take it. Probably severely root-bound at the time. Also, lychees just grows slow until it reaches a certain size, then they grow fast.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #15 on:** June 12, 2015, 06:40:34 PM »

Quote from: behlgarden on June 12, 2015, 03:45:07 PM

Looks like success here finally. Lychee on longan. this was mature wood, grafted on green longan trunk. Next I want to try green on green, need to find budwood that is actively pushing, I have two small Hakip plants but they suck in growth. not sure what I need to do to boost their growth.

Congratulations on succesful graft. Let us know if they remain compatible?

xshen · « **Reply #16 on:** June 12, 2015, 06:44:09 PM »

How old is the graft? I'm wondering if the union is fully fused

simon_grow · « **Reply #17 on:** June 12, 2015, 07:28:54 PM »

Omg, I'm super excited now. Behl, what rootstock and scion did you use? I'm going to try innarching Kaimana and Emperor onto Kohala air layers. Please do keep us updated. I'm especially interested to see if you will get increase vigor and see less wind damage on newly emerging leaves. I'm also interested if the resulting Lychees will taste normal or if it'll have a Longan flavor. Please let me know if you decide to sell this tree!

Simin

fruitlovers · « **Reply #18 on:** June 12, 2015, 07:42:37 PM »

Quote from: simon_grow on June 12, 2015, 07:28:54 PM

Omg, I'm super excited now. Behl, what rootstock and scion did you use? I'm going to try innarching Kaimana and Emperor onto Kohala air layers. Please do keep us updated. I'm especially interested to see if you will get increase vigor and see less wind damage on newly emerging leaves. I'm also interested if the resulting Lychees will taste normal or if it'll have a Longan flavor. Please let me know if you decide to sell this tree!

Simin

Why would it have a longan flavor? Do good mangoes grafted on turpentine rootstock have a turpentine taste?
BTW, lychee and longan flowers can be and have been crossed to produce new fruit, but the fruit has sterile seeds.

sapote · « **Reply #19 on:** June 12, 2015, 09:32:21 PM »

Be careful -- the new union might be able to walk

simon_grow · « **Reply #20 on:** June 12, 2015, 11:38:41 PM »

Oscar, I read a scholarly article regarding horizontal gene transfer or perhaps it was lateral gene transfer many years ago and I believe the conclusion was that grafted plants had a different genetic makeup compared to the original scion and rootstock. The grafted scion or the rootstock, I forget which, had the genetic makeup which seemed to be a chimera of sorts.

I believe someone posted something regarding the horizontal/lateral gene transfer subject previously on this forum or on GW.

I have also read that rootstocks of citrus trees affect Brix levels and also acidity. While doing research on grafted watermelons, I also discovered that certain squash rootstock can affect Brix levels and the firmness of the flesh of the resulting watermelon. Based on these past bits of information, I felt it was possible that taste can be affected. I'm totally just throwing it out there and not saying it will or won't happen. I'm hoping it won't affect flavor unless it's for the better of course😄

Simon

simon_grow · « **Reply #21 on:** June 12, 2015, 11:52:49 PM »

Quote from: fruitlovers on June 12, 2015, 07:42:37 PM

Quote from: simon_grow on June 12, 2015, 07:28:54 PM
Omg, I'm super excited now. Behl, what rootstock and scion did you use? I'm going to try innarching Kaimana and Emperor onto Kohala air layers. Please do keep us updated. I'm especially interested to see if you will get increase vigor and see less wind damage on newly emerging leaves. I'm also interested if the resulting Lychees will taste normal or if it'll have a Longan flavor. Please let me know if you decide to sell this tree!

Simin

Why would it have a longan flavor? Do good mangoes grafted on turpentine rootstock have a turpentine taste?
BTW, lychee and mango flowers can be and have been crossed to produce new fruit, but the fruit has sterile seeds.

Oscar, I think you meant Lychee and Longan can cross? If a Lychee and a mango can cross, surely a Longan tasting Lychee from a Lychee scion grafted onto Longan isn't so far fetched.

Simon

fyliu · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2015, 02:01:51 AM »

Wasn't the original 'hanging green' supposedly grafted onto longan, which is why it was vigorous or something?

They should have some level of compatibility but I don't know if I believe the Chinese legends. A lot of them seems to be made up for marketing.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #23 on:** June 13, 2015, 02:43:09 AM »

Quote from: simon_grow on June 12, 2015, 11:38:41 PM

Oscar, I read a scholarly article regarding horizontal gene transfer or perhaps it was lateral gene transfer many years ago and I believe the conclusion was that grafted plants had a different genetic makeup compared to the original scion and rootstock. The grafted scion or the rootstock, I forget which, had the genetic makeup which seemed to be a chimera of sorts.

I believe someone posted something regarding the horizontal/lateral gene transfer subject previously on this forum or on GW.

I have also read that rootstocks of citrus trees affect Brix levels and also acidity. While doing research on grafted watermelons, I also discovered that certain squash rootstock can affect Brix levels and the firmness of the flesh of the resulting watermelon. Based on these past bits of information, I felt it was possible that taste can be affected. I'm totally just throwing it out there and not saying it will or won't happen. I'm hoping it won't affect flavor unless it's for the better of course😄

Simon

Simon, even if the grafting affect brix levels that is certainly very different than making a lychee taste like a longan. Those two taste very differently.

fruitlovers · « **Reply #24 on:** June 13, 2015, 02:44:43 AM »

Quote from: simon_grow on June 12, 2015, 11:52:49 PM

Quote from: fruitlovers on June 12, 2015, 07:42:37 PM
Quote from: simon_grow on June 12, 2015, 07:28:54 PM
Omg, I'm super excited now. Behl, what rootstock and scion did you use? I'm going to try innarching Kaimana and Emperor onto Kohala air layers. Please do keep us updated. I'm especially interested to see if you will get increase vigor and see less wind damage on newly emerging leaves. I'm also interested if the resulting Lychees will taste normal or if it'll have a Longan flavor. Please let me know if you decide to sell this tree!

Simin

Why would it have a longan flavor? Do good mangoes grafted on turpentine rootstock have a turpentine taste?
BTW, lychee and mango flowers can be and have been crossed to produce new fruit, but the fruit has sterile seeds.

Oscar, I think you meant Lychee and Longan can cross? If a Lychee and a mango can cross, surely a Longan tasting Lychee from a Lychee scion grafted onto Longan isn't so far fetched.

Simon

Thanks, i corrected it. BTW a typo is a lot less far fetched than turning a lychee into a longan tasting fruit.

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Author Topic: Lychee grafted onto Longan? (Read 61004 times)