Author Topic: Shiikuwasha  (Read 3661 times)

lebmung

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Shiikuwasha
« on: November 22, 2019, 07:05:15 PM »
Shiikuwasha (Citrus depressa Hayata)
A citrus distributed from the South-west of the Japanese archipelago Okinawa to Taiwan. It grows wild there and along with Tachibana they are very ancient mandarins.

My tree just started to have new growth and flowers at relatively low temperatures 10-15C.
Very vigorous in growth habit. Not so hardy though. New growth started to melt at 2C where satsuma didn't have a problem. However it recovered fast in a couple of days.

I will make same tests, with growth habit grafted on PT or on its on roots. See deficiency problems, resistance to alkaline soil and root rot. In spring will also try to remake a PT hybrid which might be a promising rootstock. Many applications with this tree, including shortening juvenile stage.

Who also grows it?

Millet

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2019, 09:39:12 PM »
I used to live on  Okinawa and never heard of this cultivar.  Let us know from time to time how your Shiikuwasha is doing, I would be interested.

CanadaGrower

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2019, 01:40:35 AM »
I'm quite surprised you have not heard of it Millet, it's been in vogue in Japan for the past decade or so. Typically speaking a lot of people use it to make a highball with Shochu or more authentically in Okinawa Awamori. A quick wikipedia search revealed that the people of Okinawa used to use Shiikuwasa juice as a form of detergent to wash bashofu a traditional fabric endemic to Okinawa made of leaves from the banana family tree.

mikkel

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2019, 03:59:55 AM »
Eisenhut in Switzerland has it.
Some fruit pictures:
https://www.eisenhut.ch/dyn/index.php?id=272791&onlyid=140268

lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2019, 05:54:52 PM »
Its juice is used by Japanese women to burn fat. It's scientifically proven in several articles that it does so.
It's found in shops as 10% beverage. Harvest is done before it gets yellow.
In Japan there is a Fanta flavoured with Shiikuwasha.


Oolie

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2019, 09:30:51 PM »
I love the taste of it and would love to grow it, but as it's not in the CCPP, I don't think I get to.

Okinawan limes.

lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2020, 03:49:47 PM »
These are my rooted cuttings, they even start to bloom.




Oolie

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2020, 03:24:47 PM »
Since it does exist in the quarantine collection, I will be aiming to acquire some this year.

lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2020, 09:41:24 AM »
I am not planning to make soap, but concentrated juice.
My grafted plant started to bloom, I will probably get seeds this summer. They are quite vigorous in growth.
I grafted a few as well, so those in Europe who are interested I can sell some.
My main aim is to make a new rootstock, but they  flower at different times from PT

Sylvain

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2020, 10:46:32 AM »
Shekwasha is very common in Europe and we use to give budwoods for free.

eyeckr

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2020, 11:01:05 PM »
I have this tree and have had it for many years. In fact it has survived the coldest temperatures thrown at it along side my citranges, citrumelos, yuzu and other wacky trifoliate hybrids. I even forgot to mention it on my 2014 survivors list because no one ever seemed to be interested in this variety. Recently for some reason Shiikuwasha/Shekwasha/Citrus Depressa or whatever you want to call it has seemed to gain popularity and people want to get it.

Florian

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2020, 03:40:24 AM »
Very interesting. I didn't think it would be that coldhardy. Might have to get one after all.. :)

lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2020, 04:00:06 PM »
I have this tree and have had it for many years. In fact it has survived the coldest temperatures thrown at it along side my citranges, citrumelos, yuzu and other wacky trifoliate hybrids. I even forgot to mention it on my 2014 survivors list because no one ever seemed to be interested in this variety. Recently for some reason Shiikuwasha/Shekwasha/Citrus Depressa or whatever you want to call it has seemed to gain popularity and people want to get it.

Not so sure what you have. Shiikuwasha is not supposed to be cold hardy as it comes form Okinawa, a subtropical climate. C. tachibana which looks similar and from the same area it's cold hardy to -8 to -10 C
I didn't test it because here we had a very warm winter.
What I can say that when it was -1C for a night new growth just died as compared to Keraji which didn't suffer anything. So I expect it to be similar to lemon.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 04:29:36 PM by lebmung »

eyeckr

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2020, 07:40:14 PM »
I sourced my 'Shekwasha' (and Nasnaran) from JRozier around 15 years ago. He got his original start from Woodlanders as a seedling in the mid '90's. I can't find my pics of it but he has great pics of the fruit here:

http://citrusgrowersstatic.chez.com/web/viewtopic75c3-3.php

Millet

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2020, 10:38:58 PM »
I remember J.Rozier from the original old forum,   Nasnaran being the size of a US quarter, and having 16 seeds must not have much in the way of something to eat.

Laaz

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2020, 05:42:23 AM »
Haven't heard from Joe in years. He lives here in Charleston.

eyeckr

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2020, 12:56:21 PM »
Nice guy. He moved from that house so I'm not sure what all happened to his trees. He had a nice collection coming along back then.

lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2020, 03:19:39 PM »
Flowers have a strong aromatic smell all over the greenhouse


lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2020, 06:13:49 AM »
Today I made a controlled hybridization of few yuzu flowers with pollen from shiikuwasha.
I am not aware of any hybrid in literature so far, if someone finds some reference please let me know.
The new hybrid will be Citrus junos x citrus depressa, if succesful I will give it a name. I expect to be a good rootstock candidate for high ph soils if the fruit will not be edible.









lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2020, 02:47:36 PM »
Other crosses today
C junos x C keraji
C keraji x C depressa
C latifolia x C junos

Soon C unshiu x C junos

Florian

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2020, 02:58:27 PM »
Yuzu x keraji certainly does sound promising. :)

PDXIan

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2020, 06:45:56 PM »
Over the next two weeks, I'm going to work on crosses with the following,  They are all just about to open their flowers.
Ponkan, Yuzu, red finger lime, Karaji, Prague Satsuma, Ichang Lemon, Xie Shan, Changsha, Sudachi, and Harvey Lemon.

lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2020, 06:59:21 PM »
Over the next two weeks, I'm going to work on crosses with the following,  They are all just about to open their flowers.
Ponkan, Yuzu, red finger lime, Karaji, Prague Satsuma, Ichang Lemon, Xie Shan, Changsha, Sudachi, and Harvey Lemon.

I don't about satsumas like xie shan, all seeds from my satsuma okitsu didn't germinate last year.
They have a high degree of parthenocarpy and have sterile pollen and ovules. Probably only embryo rescue would work.

Ilya11

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2020, 03:26:58 AM »
Other crosses today
C junos x C keraji
C keraji x C depressa
C latifolia x C junos

Soon C unshiu x C junos
Probably all these crosses were realized many times in Japan.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2020, 09:33:50 AM »

Probably all these crosses were realized many times in Japan.
[/quote]

I am sure of that. But they are not available to us, or if they did probably they have a patent and not release them. There are many crosses which use protoplasm fusion, in the next 10-15 years maybe they will come on the market.

Nikorasu972

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2020, 04:22:22 AM »
Since it does exist in the quarantine collection, I will be aiming to acquire some this year.
Where is the quarantine collection? I'm interested in getting some too.

containerman

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2020, 09:13:35 AM »
I sourced my 'Shekwasha' (and Nasnaran) from JRozier around 15 years ago. He got his original start from Woodlanders as a seedling in the mid '90's. I can't find my pics of it but he has great pics of the fruit here:

http://citrusgrowersstatic.chez.com/web/viewtopic75c3-3.php


wow the fruit is small like a kishu.

lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2020, 07:34:16 PM »
Yes fruit is small. Very sour, but a good substitute for limes..



lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2021, 03:53:09 PM »
I waited to get the fruits very ripe on the tree.
They get sweeter once they are very done.





lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2021, 06:56:24 PM »
Fruit when ripe turns sweet with an intersting aroma


incubator01

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2021, 08:25:01 AM »



I too have a shikuwasa, bought it because it was cold hardy, so far it's been inside the greenhouse protected from snow and cold but it's vigorously flowering and growing new branches.
If I knew before hand the pursha lime would be so extremely sensitive to temperature change (a large tree of 30cm pot size diameter) lost half its leaves due to a hot spring day spike and it could not handle 40C inside greenhouse) I would not have gotten it and gotten an extra shikuwasa instead, they seem very interesting plants and t didn't suffer at all from these temperature changes :)

@lebmung : inside air was too dry here, moved everything elsewhere, increased survival chances.

pop_kun

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2021, 12:11:18 PM »
So sad CCPP doesnt have Shiikuwasha. Its one of my favorite citrus and i look everywhere for it whenever I'm in Japan.

Maybe one day...

containerman

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2021, 07:17:22 PM »
So sad CCPP doesnt have Shiikuwasha. Its one of my favorite citrus and i look everywhere for it whenever I'm in Japan.

Maybe one day...
I grew up in Hayward and went to mt eden and chabot college. Its a better area than modesto for citrus and avocado trees.

incubator01

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2021, 03:01:24 PM »
Not so sure what you have. Shiikuwasha is not supposed to be cold hardy as it comes form Okinawa, a subtropical climate. C. tachibana which looks similar and from the same area it's cold hardy to -8 to -10 C
I didn't test it because here we had a very warm winter.
What I can say that when it was -1C for a night new growth just died as compared to Keraji which didn't suffer anything. So I expect it to be similar to lemon.

I left mine in the greenhouse uncovered when it was 0C outside and probably 1 C in the greenhouse and it started growing anyway in march.
I too found it was cold hardy until -7/8 to -10 C and I really hope that is true because so far it has been my most favorite plant, it barely lost anything compared to a pursha a,d mine is now also flowering (and still growing new branches and leaves all over the place)
I bought a second one because this seems to be one I can easily work with :)

lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2021, 05:43:21 PM »

I left mine in the greenhouse uncovered when it was 0C outside and probably 1 C in the greenhouse and it started growing anyway in march.
I too found it was cold hardy until -7/8 to -10 C and I really hope that is true because so far it has been my most favorite plant, it barely lost anything compared to a pursha a,d mine is now also flowering (and still growing new branches and leaves all over the place)
I bought a second one because this seems to be one I can easily work with :)
[/quote]

Tested this winter yes down to -8C it can survive although autumn growth dies.
Almost all the nurseries in Europe sell Shikuawasha on Alemow rootstock. The rootstock will die at -2C to 0C or before most likely because of root rot. I usually toss to compost or give to someone those plants with Alemow, they all get root problems after few years.
I have my plants on PT.
This year I will graft few plants on Shikuwasha seedlings and test it for hardiness as well. Although on its own it is not resistant to root rot.

incubator01

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2021, 06:59:49 AM »

Tested this winter yes down to -8C it can survive although autumn growth dies.
Almost all the nurseries in Europe sell Shikuawasha on Alemow rootstock. The rootstock will die at -2C to 0C or before most likely because of root rot. I usually toss to compost or give to someone those plants with Alemow, they all get root problems after few years.
I have my plants on PT.
This year I will graft few plants on Shikuwasha seedlings and test it for hardiness as well. Although on its own it is not resistant to root rot.

I don't think oscar tintori uses alemow, they mainly use Poncius trifoliate and so far mine has survived longer than any alemow plants i bought from local sellers. (well you already know my background)

I ordered a second one from them, though I hope this one will have greener foliage because as you can see on the picture mine has yellowish leaves, some turned much greener already but the rest remains.
Otherwise plant is in good health,  I left it outside at 0C in februari and nothing died, though it did not have new growth, only new flowers but they did not fall off.
I do would like to know how you got the leaves of yours to be so very large and dark green though, I already give nutrients with enough N in it but maybe you do / give something extra ?

Radoslav

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2021, 11:40:15 AM »

Tested this winter yes down to -8C it can survive although autumn growth dies.
Almost all the nurseries in Europe sell Shikuawasha on Alemow rootstock. The rootstock will die at -2C to 0C or before most likely because of root rot. I usually toss to compost or give to someone those plants with Alemow, they all get root problems after few years.
I have my plants on PT.
This year I will graft few plants on Shikuwasha seedlings and test it for hardiness as well. Although on its own it is not resistant to root rot.

I don't think oscar tintori uses alemow, they mainly use Poncius trifoliate and so far mine has survived longer than any alemow plants i bought from local sellers. (well you already know my background)

I ordered a second one from them, though I hope this one will have greener foliage because as you can see on the picture mine has yellowish leaves, some turned much greener already but the rest remains.
Otherwise plant is in good health,  I left it outside at 0C in februari and nothing died, though it did not have new growth, only new flowers but they did not fall off.
I do would like to know how you got the leaves of yours to be so very large and dark green though, I already give nutrients with enough N in it but maybe you do / give something extra ?

I visited tintori in the past and also bought many plants from them. They never used poncirus as rootstock. All plants were grafted on macrophylla or volkameriana.

incubator01

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2021, 02:33:29 PM »
I visited tintori in the past and also bought many plants from them. They never used poncirus as rootstock. All plants were grafted on macrophylla or volkameriana.

Ah I see, then I was misinformed. I stand corrected.

lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2021, 07:25:56 PM »
I visited tintori in the past and also bought many plants from them. They never used poncirus as rootstock. All plants were grafted on macrophylla or volkameriana.

Ah I see, then I was misinformed. I stand corrected.

I can confirm oscar tintori uses macrophylla. No Italian nursery uses poncirus as a rootstock. It is obvious that it takes 3 times longer to grow than on alemow, plus the temps there are not so low during the winter. There is a lot of market competition and the average person doesn't care about the rootstock, so price has to be down.

If you plan to plant them in soil in your unheated greenhouse, the cold and humidity during the winter is going to kill the rootstock.
Quote
Left it outside at 0C
well at near 0 they don't freeze, it has a lot of thermal sink around. But once temps start to be -3C for a day, you will see damage.

incubator01

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2021, 05:46:11 AM »
If you plan to plant them in soil in your unheated greenhouse, the cold and humidity during the winter is going to kill the rootstock.
Quote
Left it outside at 0C
well at near 0 they don't freeze, it has a lot of thermal sink around. But once temps start to be -3C for a day, you will see damage.

Don't worry, I will not plant it in full soil anymore. I planted every citrus in containers, except a kumquat seedling, just for the fun of it ;)
The next nights we get -2 C so I did cover all of them with a frost cloth inside the unheated greenhouse just to be sure the new growth will not die. I can confirm shikuwasa is a good grower, perhaps a bit slower than others but once it got started it got new buds on many places and grow fast.
As for reference, I was told by a dutch citrus specialist that most citrus were grafted on PT however since I saw many differences on the grafts of the ones on Oscar Tintori's plants I already found it odd. I do know from the same person that Oscar tintori is to be trusted in terms of having good plants, much better than whatever I had before from local stores.
My only issue (personally) is that I should not buy very young cuttings or recent grafted plants, I do not have the proper experience yet to care for them and make sure they survive winter. Maybe in the future :)

pagnr

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2021, 07:52:34 AM »
So sad CCPP doesnt have Shiikuwasha. Its one of my favorite citrus and i look everywhere for it whenever I'm in Japan.

Any particular places to look for Citrus fruit in Japan ??
I've only tried supermarkets, fruit shops and sometimes gardens.
Not much too unusual there.

lebmung

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2021, 06:57:29 AM »
This is my Shiikuwasha for sale 25, 3 years old, grafted on poncirus trifoliata which took -25C. Shipping only to EU.
Those interested in seeds I also have at 5 for 6 seeds, germination 100%.



Millet

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2021, 11:22:57 AM »
About Shikuwasha and Okinawa.  I lived on Okinawa for two years,  never seen the fruit offered in restaurants as a relish, never seen a Shikuwasha tree, never even heard the word Shikuwasha spoken.  That certainly does not mean that Shikuwasha was not grown their, but it must not have been all that common either.

incubator01

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2021, 12:37:32 PM »
This is my Shiikuwasha for sale 25, 3 years old, grafted on poncirus trifoliata which took -25C. Shipping only to EU.
Those interested in seeds I also have at 5 for 6 seeds, germination 100%.



I am definitely interested in the Shiikuwasha plant, I promise i'll take good care of it! I have sent you a PM

Laaz

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2021, 09:55:03 PM »
Check the spelling... Shekwasha.

incubator01

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Re: Shiikuwasha
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2021, 03:23:08 AM »
Check the spelling... Shekwasha.

It has many names:, quote from wikipedia:
Citrus depressa (Citrus depressa, formerly C. pectinifera, Okinawan: シークヮーサー/シークァーサー shiikwaasa, Japanese: ヒラミレモン hirami remon or シークワーサー shīkuwāsā), in English sometimes called shiikuwasha, shequasar, Taiwan tangerine, Okinawa lime,[1] flat lemon, hirami lemon, or thin-skinned flat lemon

lebmung

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