Author Topic: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?  (Read 1758 times)

tedburn

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Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« on: January 30, 2021, 02:24:16 AM »
I have a lot of different 4-6 week old citrus seedlings and they are growing nice. So I thought if in this age grafting heals faster. The more difficult handling due to the only 8 to 10 cm high seedlings would be the price. If my theory of faster healing is true.
I will try it the next days. But if everyone has experience, it would be interesting to hear about ?
Best regards Frank

Vlad

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2021, 09:10:11 AM »
What type graft do you plant to use?

poncirsguy

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2021, 09:35:05 AM »
I have grafted on seedling 15 inches tall at 4 months age.  The buds take a lot longer to grow than those grafted to bigger stock.


tedburn

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2021, 09:59:18 AM »
I tried it just now in cleft grafting, I took a Star Ruby and a Dunstan seedling on flying dragon each. The size of the seedlings was  between 3 and 4 inches. But it was difficult because the plants have been in trayers with other plants and the trunks are still very smooth. Dunstan was still easier than Star Ruby.
Other difficulty was to fix and get pressure at the grafting point, also with the smoth trunks.
So I have done it and will see the next days if they dry out or stay green. So wether it works or not It was a new experience. The reasons for the grafting have been that the seedlings are in good groth and the hope to have in spring already graftet plants for getting bigger plants in autumn. But in ever case next grafting will be done with older seedlings 😅.

Millet

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2021, 01:56:47 PM »
Micro grafting is a rapid growing development commercially.

tedburn

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2021, 04:04:36 PM »
Yes Millet I' ve seen on you tube, but this is still more complicated and needs special technics and tools.

poncirsguy

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2021, 06:57:41 PM »
I grafted a New Zealand lemonade tree to  Seville sour orange root stock August.28 2020.  I had 1/3 inch bud growth by October 1-2020.  4 months later I have a tree with 61 inches of linear growth now starting to push 12 more shoots.  The Seville orange was 2.5 years old at time of grafting.  There is about a 50% difference in the tree sizes of what I grafted 2 year 8 months ago.  It to is a N.Z.L on Seville sour.




I wish you well on your grafts.  Both of my trees are doing well.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 07:00:58 PM by poncirsguy »

vnomonee

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2021, 10:01:38 PM »
While not a seedling, I grafted a Satsuma bud from a grocery store fruit branch onto a tiny rooted cutting. (I live in the North East so not really worried about spreading diseases.) The cutting is no more than a 1/4 inch wide. I did a cleft graft on top which died, but the bud graft under it took and has calloused. Just waiting for it to grow now, I have just uncovered it as the bud graft is a bit over 4 weeks old. 



Millet

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2021, 10:46:51 PM »
Good job with the bud graph, as the rootstock you were using was not a good round shape.

Till

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2021, 07:56:08 AM »
I did a lot of grafts onto 1.5-2mm thick Poncirus seedlings. I had nothing better at that time. Most grafts took. But I would not say the healing was faster as compared to thicker seedlings. How fast a graft takes is just a matter of how fast the rootstock is growing. If it is half dormant you must wait for a longer time than if it is growing at the moment. Temperature plays also a very important role. Everything done at summer temperature is healing very fast. Healing is also fast in spring due to rapid growth. Late summer is possible but healing is slow then. That is my experience.

tedburn

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2021, 12:55:45 PM »
Til, this was also the thickness of my seedling trunks about 2 mm. If thy take I will post pictures. Good summarize of you to grafting conditions.

tedburn

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ? Yes it is
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2021, 07:56:50 AM »
50% success, after 10 days the Dunstan/FD graft is growing, as expected the Star ruby/FD graft failed.
But very early grafting is possible though difficult. As it seems there is nearly no lack of growing as if grafting older plants. Regards Frank






Tropical Bay Area

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2021, 02:52:33 PM »
I would think it could work but I would still wait if I had time
Cheers!

lebmung

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2021, 08:49:41 AM »
I always like to do cleft micrografting on 1-2 mm stems.
The reason is that a tree gets stronger, graft union will be completely heald and almost invisible after few years.
Micrografting is not be be confused with microscope apical tip grafting used to obtain virus free new plants.

poncirsguy

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2021, 04:39:29 PM »
The root stock 'Seville sour' is 2MM diameter and the scion 'New Zealand lemonade' is about 1mm diameter.  Is this what you mean by micro cleft grafting


tedburn

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2021, 05:59:26 PM »
Hello Poncirusguy, yes this is is about the same size than mine. I will still add an update picture
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 06:01:08 PM by tedburn »

orangedays

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2021, 07:59:35 PM »
This was an interesting idea so I tried it out. It seems like a good aproach since the cambium to interior wood ratio is quite high for seedlings. I took a few seedlings that were failing to thrive on their own roots and grafted them onto seedlings PT.  Then I stuck the PT tops in the pots beside the grafts.  It took a couple of months before I could see the new shoots on the seedling rescues but as you see they are growing. And the two of the PT tops rooted and started to grow as well.









tedburn

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2021, 12:20:40 AM »
nice success, congratulation, also the recycling of the pt tops 😉

tedburn

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2021, 11:55:20 AM »
I still tried some more graftings with young seedlings and have very low fail rates, so I believe due to the youth of the plants and the strong growing ability (Dunstan citrumelo) it' s very favorable for grafting and fast wound healing. Currently I tried a combination seedling (Dunstan citrumelo) with thin mature wood of cocktail pomelo ( there the result is still open).
But in the picture a new good growing graft of Star Ruby on Dunstan citrumelo, both 5 month old seedlings.

Regards Frank

pagnr

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2021, 06:47:51 PM »
One issue I wondered about is that graft height or budding height does not change as the plant grows taller.
Basically the graft union stays at the same original height.
Grafting on very small seedlings, could mean that the graft line is going to be at 2 or 3 cm for the life of the plant.
There is a preference for higher graft heights overall 20 cm for orchard trees for protection from fungal disease.
On the other hand, I have read that Japanese Citrus is budded quite low to reduce suckering.
I find it more difficult to work low on a plant, so often bud higher, also for size matching and ease of taping.

tedburn

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2021, 06:12:04 AM »
Yes it will be interesting to follow the growing process.Up to now they grow well and good. Time will tell if grafting on young seedlings will have disadvantages.
Concerning fungal disease could be a slight disadvantage but I think it is primarily a question of varieties and cultivating conditions.
Due to the fact that I had a lot seedlings it was a good option to try some experiments  ;).

pagnr

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2021, 06:00:42 PM »
Yes I don't think it would be a big issue, as you say depending on varieties and cultivation conditions.
Tomatoes, cucumbers etc are commonly grafted on seedling rootstocks. These would be as tender as young Citrus, maybe more so ??
Here they use grafting clips/pegs to hold the graft closed. I found these pegs also useful for very small citrus grafting to hold the small buds or scions in place before taping.
Also Buddy Tape or Parafilm was highly useful and much easier to "tie off" than regular tape.



tedburn

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2021, 12:31:27 PM »
A current picture of the january grafted 6 week old Dunstan seedling on Flying Dragon (FD)  seedling with nearly same age.
After meanwhile slower growth than the not grafted Dunstan seedlings with same age, the last weeks the grafted Dunstan recovered very well
and has now nearly same hight as the other Dunstan seedlings.
Dunstan grows faster than FD, and I guess the FD/Dunstan combination needed a little bit time that the rootstock managed to deliver enough power for the fast growing Dunstan.



tedburn

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2021, 03:26:38 PM »
Update of the grafts on young Dunstan seedlings - good grafting success, very smal fail rate




orangedays

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Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2021, 12:54:45 PM »
Grafting seedlings worked well for me also.  Here is an updated image of the seedling rescues. They are on PT. They did not grow as fast as the non-grafted seedling. I wonder if its from recovering from grafting of being on PT which is a slower growing seedling than these tangerine X tangelo crosses?


 

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