Author Topic: Not enough Durian Discussion  (Read 1992 times)

johnb51

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2021, 11:22:08 AM »
Could someone please describe the flavor of durian?  Not the offensive aspect (well you can include that), but WHAT MAKES IT SO APPEALING AND DELICIOUS?   ??? ???  I generally like weird flavors that half the population can't stand (e.g., cilantro) so I imagine I would like durian.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2021, 11:27:22 AM by johnb51 »
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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2021, 12:28:00 PM »
It is pretty easy to get a piece to try.  Go to an asian market and they will have small frozen pieces for sale in the freezer section. Not as good as fresh but cheaper and available.

Could someone please describe the flavor of durian?  Not the offensive aspect (well you can include that), but WHAT MAKES IT SO APPEALING AND DELICIOUS?   ??? ???  I generally like weird flavors that half the population can't stand (e.g., cilantro) so I imagine I would like durian.
Brandon

johnb51

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2021, 03:18:24 PM »
It is pretty easy to get a piece to try.  Go to an asian market and they will have small frozen pieces for sale in the freezer section. Not as good as fresh but cheaper and available.

Could someone please describe the flavor of durian?  Not the offensive aspect (well you can include that), but WHAT MAKES IT SO APPEALING AND DELICIOUS?   ??? ???  I generally like weird flavors that half the population can't stand (e.g., cilantro) so I imagine I would like durian.
Of course!  What's wrong with me?  Thanks, Brandon.
John

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2021, 04:55:59 PM »
Could someone please describe the flavor of durian?  Not the offensive aspect (well you can include that), but WHAT MAKES IT SO APPEALING AND DELICIOUS?   ??? ???  I generally like weird flavors that half the population can't stand (e.g., cilantro) so I imagine I would like durian.

Each Durian has it's nuances but in essence I would describe it as a carmelized onion custard log, some are more sweet and some are more bitter/pungent with more of the onion flavor smacking your tastebuds around.

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2021, 05:53:16 PM »
Could someone please describe the flavor of durian?  Not the offensive aspect (well you can include that), but WHAT MAKES IT SO APPEALING AND DELICIOUS?   ??? ???  I generally like weird flavors that half the population can't stand (e.g., cilantro) so I imagine I would like durian.

Each Durian has it's nuances but in essence I would describe it as a carmelized onion custard log, some are more sweet and some are more bitter/pungent with more of the onion flavor smacking your tastebuds around.
How many different ways is Durian prepared?
Juice jelly are only eating out of hand?
Have you ever purchased any locally from an Asian store that met minimal standards for you?
If it's like the store boughten mango scenario I will not even bother. One bite from a store-bought mango goes straight to the rubbish can.
Tete Nene Julie Little Gem Pickering Dot Sonpari Mallika PPK E-4 OS Phoenix Fruit Punch SweetTart Honey Kiss M-4 Neelam Lychee Guava  Atemoya Sugar Apple Soursop Citrus Plantain Barbados Cherry

fruitlovers

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2021, 05:59:13 AM »
The main durian growing area in Australia is between the latitudes of 16s to 19s and that is in cyclone alley. Hawaii although maritime/trade wind littoral in its climate is in the 20sn latitude. We are talking about the varieties that can stretch it further.There is a wide variety of cold tolerances in durian varieties probably reflecting the genetic diversity. While durians are of equatorial origin and the maritime continent might not have a new world equivalent in terms of heat generation, Florida is not out of the question.
FYI Mike the area in Hawaii that i'm growing durian in is 19N. Hawaii islands stretch from 19 to 21 N. latitude. We're outside the hurricane zone and definitely warm enough. Main limiting factor on windward sides of the islands is sometimes too high of a rainfall, with no regular dry season. But like Peter i have old trees that have produced large quantities.
Oscar

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2021, 06:07:19 AM »
Durians have been well discussed in the past. But because a large majority of the members are from Florida, and can't fruit it, and often have never tasted it, then they will often join in the discussion and get into the usual durian bashing routines. That's a bit of a turn off in most durian discussions. I find most of the people that bash durians have either never tasted it, or maybe the range of their experience is that they once tasted a frozen one.
Oscar

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2021, 02:34:50 PM »
Most people I know have tried fresh local durian and for a majority, 80%?, it’s not their cup of tea. How much of this is due to uneven local selections I don’t know. But wow, those in the minority are fervent devotees of the fruit and use words like “uninitiated” and “inexperienced” to describe those who don’t like it.

Personally, I enjoy the flavor but despise the penetrating aroma. So much so that I won’t be planting any as the orchard is upwind of my house. I look forward to trying the best in SE Asia and hopefully having my mind changed. It’s a uniquely powerful and complex fruit!

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2021, 02:38:59 AM »
If all that you can get to form an opinion are tree-cut frozen Monthongs that are not even ripe and will never ripen properly, then you're guaranteed to hate it. Monthongs can be quite good, IF they're not cut from the tree BUT collected after they ripened and dropped from the tree. That's how it should be done IMO. I grew up enjoying durians in Penang, and even in Malaysia, some folks cannot tolerate the smell and flavor of durian. Superior culltivars like Musang King were not available in the US until 3 or 4 years go, and is still difficult to find. Other top-tiers like Black Thorn, Red Prawn, and Sultan have yet to make an appearance here... and these boys are expansive !!
In 2018-2019 Malaysia, the Black Thorn durian goes for Rm$70/kg, which works out to US$8/lb, which is well beyond the means of most people.
I will buy frozen Musang King ocassionally in Florida, at the low low price of US$13.00/lb. An averaged sized Musang King is about 5-6 lbs. Not only is it difficult to hunt down, not many folks here (my "sober" self included) will shell out at least 65 bucks for a fruit that I've never tried and may end up not liking. At these prices, i can't blame anybody for not trying the true "King of Fruits"


fruitlovers

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2021, 06:52:30 AM »
If all that you can get to form an opinion are tree-cut frozen Monthongs that are not even ripe and will never ripen properly, then you're guaranteed to hate it. Monthongs can be quite good, IF they're not cut from the tree BUT collected after they ripened and dropped from the tree. That's how it should be done IMO. I grew up enjoying durians in Penang, and even in Malaysia, some folks cannot tolerate the smell and flavor of durian. Superior culltivars like Musang King were not available in the US until 3 or 4 years go, and is still difficult to find. Other top-tiers like Black Thorn, Red Prawn, and Sultan have yet to make an appearance here... and these boys are expansive !!
In 2018-2019 Malaysia, the Black Thorn durian goes for Rm$70/kg, which works out to US$8/lb, which is well beyond the means of most people.
I will buy frozen Musang King ocassionally in Florida, at the low low price of US$13.00/lb. An averaged sized Musang King is about 5-6 lbs. Not only is it difficult to hunt down, not many folks here (my "sober" self included) will shell out at least 65 bucks for a fruit that I've never tried and may end up not liking. At these prices, i can't blame anybody for not trying the true "King of Fruits"

About frozen durians, i would just add that most companies that sell frozen durians use the seconds or thirds, ofcourse it's not going to be top of the line. This is true of many frozen fruits, the stuff that can't be sold fresh is sent to be frozen.
Also i wonder how many people who have never in their lives tasted apples would like them if they had frozen Red delicious apples, or frozen Tommy Atkins, as their only way to gauge the qualities of these fruits?
Oscar

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2021, 07:33:04 AM »
Durian is a fruit that not only grows in the tropics, it grows on people. The more you have the more you like and appreciate them. How many people don't like avocado when they first try it? Taste pretty bland and why isn't it sweet they might say. Durian is pasty/creamy and has a sweet and savoury balance with slightly bitter and nutty tones and even vanilla if you use your imagination. Sure the skin is aromatic and pungent but the flesh does not have any taste of cat urine, rotten onion, night soil, vomit and not blue cheese.Try to describe the taste of mushrooms to someone who hasn't tried them or even pate'. Having a cultured palate means you have to be a little adventurous and develop appreciations.

sunny

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2021, 09:59:30 AM »
I live in the area of the most expensive thai durians. My tree set 1 fruit so far, 2 years ago. Since then the durians drop when tiny, today the last one dropped so no harvest again this year.

Don't know what the problem is, getting tired of it.

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2021, 11:45:15 AM »
Sunny, when that happens here I usually tell people to start by adding calcium but really, there could be lots of problems.  But where you live there must be a lot of local knowledge, perhaps the best in the world.  Please check with agricultural professionals working with durian.  I would be fascinated to hear what they have to say.
Peter

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2021, 03:57:32 PM »
Durian is a fruit that not only grows in the tropics, it grows on people. The more you have the more you like and appreciate them. How many people don't like avocado when they first try it? Taste pretty bland and why isn't it sweet they might say. Durian is pasty/creamy and has a sweet and savoury balance with slightly bitter and nutty tones and even vanilla if you use your imagination. Sure the skin is aromatic and pungent but the flesh does not have any taste of cat urine, rotten onion, night soil, vomit and not blue cheese.Try to describe the taste of mushrooms to someone who hasn't tried them or even pate'. Having a cultured palate means you have to be a little adventurous and develop appreciations.

Well said.

It is a taste that grows on you, like many things in life.  I may add that the first taste of hot pepper should drive many people away.  But if you give it a try and let your taste buds adapt, you may find it to be an enriching culinary experience.

sunny

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2021, 08:09:50 PM »
Sunny, when that happens here I usually tell people to start by adding calcium but really, there could be lots of problems.  But where you live there must be a lot of local knowledge, perhaps the best in the world.  Please check with agricultural professionals working with durian.  I would be fascinated to hear what they have to say.
Peter


There they are, they just dropped. The only time i got one big durian from this tree was after 5-6 years when i bloomed for the 1st time after giving loads of fertilizers (kilo's) like they recommend for durian tree's. But that's for high productive tree's which i don't have yet. But i have a mongthong and that variety fruits the best if there are other varieties near. I don't know if we have other varieties near. Anyway it's a small tree since i keep it at 3 meters high so it doesn't take that much space.

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2021, 09:56:12 PM »
Durian is a fruit that not only grows in the tropics, it grows on people. The more you have the more you like and appreciate them. How many people don't like avocado when they first try it? Taste pretty bland and why isn't it sweet they might say. Durian is pasty/creamy and has a sweet and savoury balance with slightly bitter and nutty tones and even vanilla if you use your imagination. Sure the skin is aromatic and pungent but the flesh does not have any taste of cat urine, rotten onion, night soil, vomit and not blue cheese.Try to describe the taste of mushrooms to someone who hasn't tried them or even pate'. Having a cultured palate means you have to be a little adventurous and develop appreciations.
Totally agree. Definitely durian has grown on me and i become much more fond of them every year. Also i think over time you get better at picking out the best fruits, at peak ripeness, and get to know the best varieties. Unfortunately most of the best varieties are not yet available to most people in western countries.
Oscar

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2021, 10:02:47 PM »
...
Also i wonder how many people who have never in their lives tasted apples would like them if they had frozen Red delicious apples, or frozen Tommy Atkins, as their only way to gauge the qualities of these fruits?

This is my worry, that I might be missing out for the reasons you describe.   Tommy Atkins mangoes and Red Delicious apples really are terrible representatives.  The only durian I've been able to try is what people mentioned is probably a Musan King shipped fresh from Thailand for... ~$75(!) at a local asian market.  It truly smelled bad to me and everybody who I showed it to.  And the taste wasn't great, though better than it smelled. 

I'd love to try a top tier specimen and see how it compares.

fruitlovers

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2021, 12:07:00 AM »
...
Also i wonder how many people who have never in their lives tasted apples would like them if they had frozen Red delicious apples, or frozen Tommy Atkins, as their only way to gauge the qualities of these fruits?

This is my worry, that I might be missing out for the reasons you describe.   Tommy Atkins mangoes and Red Delicious apples really are terrible representatives.  The only durian I've been able to try is what people mentioned is probably a Musan King shipped fresh from Thailand for... ~$75(!) at a local asian market.  It truly smelled bad to me and everybody who I showed it to.  And the taste wasn't great, though better than it smelled. 

I'd love to try a top tier specimen and see how it compares.
Musang King is a top tier durian. But tasting one fresh off the tree is very different than one that was shipped from 10,000+ miles away. Like with most fruits, in order for them to reach market in presentable stage they are picked on immature side, and also sprayed with growth regulators to keep them from ripening too fast. Long cold storage also takes its toll on taste and texture.
Oscar

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2021, 03:25:26 AM »
Oscar,
You may be mistaken... Most, if not all, Musang Kings that you come across in the US originate in Malaysia. More importantly, these durians are NOT harvested like you would a mature mango, i.e., picked/cut from the tree. Instead the durians are allowed to ripen on the tree and dropped (without human intervention). They are then collected and processed (flash frozen in liquid nitrogen) and shipped. Thai's do NOT like smelly durians--Malaysians, on the other hand, love the pungent aromatics of their cultivars. It's a dramatically different harvesting practice between Thais and Malaysians.
When ripe, the sections of ripe durians also tend split open fairly easily, especially at nose, which will desiccate the arils. The exporters circumvent the splitting tendency by rubber-banding the nose end of each fruit. Of course there's always going to be some loss in quality when you ship frozen fresh fruit to faraway places. But the eating experience of a thawed Musang King exceeds all expectations when compared to a Monthong. For some (like my wife), it justifies the price difference between $4.50/lb Monthong and $13/lb for Musang King in St. Pete. Mind you, I've had very good Monthongs in Thailand (per my tastebuds) when i can find tree-dropped (ripe) fruits, but these are extremely difficult to come by.

ps. Note the green rubber bands keeping the sections intact. The smaller vacuum-packed and frozen box is relatively cheaper at $24.00 per box.




Finca La Isla

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2021, 12:38:19 PM »
Traditionally Thailand has been the only significant exporter of durian.  If the Malaysians let the fruits drop, then load a container for freezing the fruit will be starting to ferment by the time it actually gets frozen.  Liquid nitrogen is a game changer since it freezes the fruit in about 5 minutes.  The biggest market by far is China and they are now asking for musang king.
 Most Musang King in Malaysia is produced on small farms of 5 acres or less.  However, larger farms are ramping up with MSK as well as Black Thorn which is starting to get the highest price on the market locally.  Some farmers are ripping out oil palm to plant durian in its place.
Peter

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2021, 07:03:14 PM »
Oscar,
You may be mistaken... Most, if not all, Musang Kings that you come across in the US originate in Malaysia. More importantly, these durians are NOT harvested like you would a mature mango, i.e., picked/cut from the tree. Instead the durians are allowed to ripen on the tree and dropped (without human intervention). They are then collected and processed (flash frozen in liquid nitrogen) and shipped. Thai's do NOT like smelly durians--Malaysians, on the other hand, love the pungent aromatics of their cultivars. It's a dramatically different harvesting practice between Thais and Malaysians.
When ripe, the sections of ripe durians also tend split open fairly easily, especially at nose, which will desiccate the arils. The exporters circumvent the splitting tendency by rubber-banding the nose end of each fruit. Of course there's always going to be some loss in quality when you ship frozen fresh fruit to faraway places. But the eating experience of a thawed Musang King exceeds all expectations when compared to a Monthong. For some (like my wife), it justifies the price difference between $4.50/lb Monthong and $13/lb for Musang King in St. Pete. Mind you, I've had very good Monthongs in Thailand (per my tastebuds) when i can find tree-dropped (ripe) fruits, but these are extremely difficult to come by.

ps. Note the green rubber bands keeping the sections intact. The smaller vacuum-packed and frozen box is relatively cheaper at $24.00 per box.




Interesting I wonder if they are sending these to Australia?? We dont have musang king here and I would like to try it.

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2021, 07:14:34 PM »
Oscar,
You may be mistaken... Most, if not all, Musang Kings that you come across in the US originate in Malaysia. More importantly, these durians are NOT harvested like you would a mature mango, i.e., picked/cut from the tree. Instead the durians are allowed to ripen on the tree and dropped (without human intervention). They are then collected and processed (flash frozen in liquid nitrogen) and shipped. Thai's do NOT like smelly durians--Malaysians, on the other hand, love the pungent aromatics of their cultivars. It's a dramatically different harvesting practice between Thais and Malaysians.
When ripe, the sections of ripe durians also tend split open fairly easily, especially at nose, which will desiccate the arils. The exporters circumvent the splitting tendency by rubber-banding the nose end of each fruit. Of course there's always going to be some loss in quality when you ship frozen fresh fruit to faraway places. But the eating experience of a thawed Musang King exceeds all expectations when compared to a Monthong. For some (like my wife), it justifies the price difference between $4.50/lb Monthong and $13/lb for Musang King in St. Pete. Mind you, I've had very good Monthongs in Thailand (per my tastebuds) when i can find tree-dropped (ripe) fruits, but these are extremely difficult to come by.

ps. Note the green rubber bands keeping the sections intact. The smaller vacuum-packed and frozen box is relatively cheaper at $24.00 per box.



I'm sure the companies that freeze Musang King are taking better care than those that are freezing Monthong because as you point out they are charging more than 3x the price. I haven't had frozen MK because i don't think they are sent here to Hawaii. But i really doubt it's going to be as good as one of my fresh fruits off my trees. It would be interesting to do a comparison of fresh and frozen MK side by side and see how thy compare and see how much quality deterioration there really is? BTW tree dropped Monthong is not hard to find in Thailand if you drive to one of the very many farms that grow them.
Oscar

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2021, 07:53:53 PM »
Oscar,
You may be mistaken... Most, if not all, Musang Kings that you come across in the US originate in Malaysia. More importantly, these durians are NOT harvested like you would a mature mango, i.e., picked/cut from the tree. Instead the durians are allowed to ripen on the tree and dropped (without human intervention). They are then collected and processed (flash frozen in liquid nitrogen) and shipped. Thai's do NOT like smelly durians--Malaysians, on the other hand, love the pungent aromatics of their cultivars. It's a dramatically different harvesting practice between Thais and Malaysians.
When ripe, the sections of ripe durians also tend split open fairly easily, especially at nose, which will desiccate the arils. The exporters circumvent the splitting tendency by rubber-banding the nose end of each fruit. Of course there's always going to be some loss in quality when you ship frozen fresh fruit to faraway places. But the eating experience of a thawed Musang King exceeds all expectations when compared to a Monthong. For some (like my wife), it justifies the price difference between $4.50/lb Monthong and $13/lb for Musang King in St. Pete. Mind you, I've had very good Monthongs in Thailand (per my tastebuds) when i can find tree-dropped (ripe) fruits, but these are extremely difficult to come by.

ps. Note the green rubber bands keeping the sections intact. The smaller vacuum-packed and frozen box is relatively cheaper at $24.00 per box.



I'm sure the companies that freeze Musang King are taking better care than those that are freezing Monthong because as you point out they are charging more than 3x the price. I haven't had frozen MK because i don't think they are sent here to Hawaii. But i really doubt it's going to be as good as one of my fresh fruits off my trees. It would be interesting to do a comparison of fresh and frozen MK side by side and see how thy compare and see how much quality deterioration there really is? BTW tree dropped Monthong is not hard to find in Thailand if you drive to one of the very many farms that grow them.

Oscar are you growing musang king clones in hawaii ?

fruitlovers

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2021, 10:07:41 PM »
I have a grafted tree planted labeled Musang King, but can't be 100% sure it's the real thing till it fruits. I also have Black Thorn seedlings, but don't know how much variation there will be from seed.
Oscar

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Re: Not enough Durian Discussion
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2021, 10:18:07 PM »
Which cultivars do you find grow best and produce the best fruit in your climate in hawaii?

According to the malay farmer of black thorn claims only 15% will come true from seed, this was second hand information.