Author Topic: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida  (Read 796 times)

PixelTreat

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no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« on: March 27, 2021, 03:36:47 PM »
I live in Southern California and a few years back bought a Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida. Neither have produced any fruit yet. The Sweet Tart is looking very healthy this spring so I'm crossing my fingers this will be the year. I'm not as confident in the Coconut Cream. I think 5 years should be sufficient to get something... anything. I knew I was taking a chance planting trees with Turpentine stock. Meanwhile my Glenn I bought at Mimosa Nursery produces more mangoes then we can eat, I end up freezing them each year. Granted I bought it in a 15 gallon vs 3 gallon so I'm not sure how long I should wait before pulling the plug on the Florida varieties. Or is there a suggestion on how I can kickstart the fruiting process?


Coconut Cream, bought as a 3 gallon on 9/15:


Sweet Tart, bought as 3 gallon on 2/17:


My prolific Glenn tree I bought locally as a 15 gallon, bought in 2014 but produced fruit immediately:


Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2021, 05:48:16 PM »
Your trees look fine. Give them more time. Some fruit trees take 5-8 years to produce a reliable crop. 

A least you get some good inland heat in the summer. At my coastal location, it is much cooler and we have less growth relatively.

Johnny

Honest Abe

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2021, 09:44:31 PM »
Almost everyone Iíve spoken to growing coco cream here in south Florida has had terrible
Productivity the first 7 years...The catch is: I donít know anyone growing in Cali, and I donít know anyone growing for more than 7 years. Maybe the experts will give you their experiences. Iíve only been growing mine 2 years but no blooms, and almost EVERYTHING bloomed this year in south Florida.

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2021, 03:15:49 PM »
My Coconut Cream mango tree is blooming fine now (see photo) but the tree itself is still young at four years old.

Just in case the CC does not work out I have already grafted several branches with Seacrest which is similar in appearance and growth rate and should produce well.

Johnny


Coconut Cream Mango Tree in SoCal (3-25-2021)

johnb51

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2021, 03:20:04 PM »
Your trees look fine. Give them more time. Some fruit trees take 5-8 years to produce a reliable crop. 

A least you get some good inland heat in the summer. At my coastal location, it is much cooler and we have less growth relatively.

Johnny
Inland heat in Culver City??  Johnny, look at a map.  CC is not Whittier or Alhambra!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2021, 03:29:08 PM by johnb51 »
John

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2021, 04:11:03 PM »
Your right. Culver City is not inland very much, probably similar to my location. I just looked it up. Not as familiar with the North part of LA county as I don't go up that way often.

Johnny

PixelTreat

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2021, 12:28:12 AM »
Yes, Culver City is more mediterranean climate wise I'd say. Outside the the marine layer, most sunny, but not as hot as inland. High seventies to high eighties in the summer. I still need to watch out for powdery mildew for the first few months of spring.

Great to hear other experiences. I'll be more patient. Waiting for a tree to grow is worse than waiting for paint to dry.

Another thing I've noticed is the Coconut Cream buds are very different then the other two mango trees. Thicker clumps, stickier. Others notice this too? I'll get a pick tomorrow.

PixelTreat

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2021, 12:37:43 AM »
Your coconut look a bit different than mine. Your tree looks more like my Sweet Tart, longer trunk and upright smaller flower clusters. My CC grows more droopy in its branches but larger leaves. But I do see some of the same style of chunky flower buds.

My Coconut Cream mango tree is blooming fine now (see photo) but the tree itself is still young at four years old.

Just in case the CC does not work out I have already grafted several branches with Seacrest which is similar in appearance and growth rate and should produce well.

Johnny


Coconut Cream Mango Tree in SoCal (3-25-2021)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 12:42:10 AM by PixelTreat »

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2021, 10:05:16 AM »
Yea my Coco Cream has a strong tendency to have many branches growing sideways and downward. Last year I trimmed many of the downward branches trying to force new growth upward. This mango tree has a strange growth pattern but the branches are fairly easy to trim. I hope this tree works out in the long run in terms of production. As an insurance policy, I top worked four branches on the CC to Seacrest. Even if my CC is a total dud and I get no production I will continue my top working to other varieties so the tree will not be lost.

My trunk is longer because it was grafted to a manila mango seedling tree in late 2016. I believe your rootstock is turpentine which is different.

If I was just getting started or had to do this over I would be much more inclined to plant a Seacrest mango tree rather than the Coconut cream. Thus far I have been very impressed with the fast growth and appearance of my Seacrest. It has the same parents (Edward X Gary) as the coco cream but has a more traditional upright growth pattern, and by all accounts is an excellent tasting mango with a citrus component close to the skin. The Seacrest is reported to have consistent and excellent production.

Good luck with your trees.

Johnny 

bsbullie

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2021, 10:24:51 AM »
In Florida, CC takes a while before it will produce.  Five plus years following planting is not uncommon.

From what I have seen, Seacrest is a moderate producer.  Taste is 100% polar opposite of CC.  Think of an Edward with added citrus component.
- Rob

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2021, 10:42:57 AM »
I hope your right Rob about Coconut Cream taking more time to come into production. My Tree is approaching the five-year mark and so far no fruit. Time will tell with this cultivar.

Seacrest is a good grower here in California and appears to be an excellent-tasting mango. It Will be interesting to compare the two sometime in the future. 

Johnny

Johnny Redland

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2021, 11:09:12 AM »
Both of those trees for me (in south florida) are bi-annual producers.  They may produce a half dozen or so fruit in their off year MAX, but every other year they are heavy producers.  They've done this consistently for me over the last 6-7 years

bsbullie

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2021, 11:17:02 AM »
I had a CC planted at my old house in Boynton Beach and it produced the same in back to back years (was toppled by Irma and removed in 2017 when the house was sold.

I dont believe Seacrest has even been released for six years.  From what I has seen/observed from topworked trees, its consistent in its production.

Since Seacrest is of Edward parentage,  I would expect it may do well in Cali, maybe even better than in Florida, as Edward seems to consistently do better in Cali compared to Florida.
- Rob

PixelTreat

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2021, 12:54:20 AM »
Oh yeah mine is a Dr. Seuss tree for sure. I did one major trimming couple years back but it grew back so slow I've been hesitant to do again. But after this summer I'll take out a couple of lower hanging branches. I'm looking forward to this one as I really wanted a strong coconut flavored mango.

Here's my tree from another angle, the lower brighter green leaves are part of the same tree:


And here's an early flower bud, definitely a bit different then my other mango trees but the following image shows they develop to look the same.




Yea my Coco Cream has a strong tendency to have many branches growing sideways and downward. Last year I trimmed many of the downward branches trying to force new growth upward. This mango tree has a strange growth pattern but the branches are fairly easy to trim. I hope this tree works out in the long run in terms of production. As an insurance policy, I top worked four branches on the CC to Seacrest. Even if my CC is a total dud and I get no production I will continue my top working to other varieties so the tree will not be lost.

My trunk is longer because it was grafted to a manila mango seedling tree in late 2016. I believe your rootstock is turpentine which is different.

If I was just getting started or had to do this over I would be much more inclined to plant a Seacrest mango tree rather than the Coconut cream. Thus far I have been very impressed with the fast growth and appearance of my Seacrest. It has the same parents (Edward X Gary) as the coco cream but has a more traditional upright growth pattern, and by all accounts is an excellent tasting mango with a citrus component close to the skin. The Seacrest is reported to have consistent and excellent production.

Good luck with your trees.

Johnny




PixelTreat

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2021, 01:03:01 AM »
My lamb hass avocado is bi-annual. Off year I have so few I need cover them in screen mesh bags or the squirrels get them all within a few days.

Both of those trees for me (in south florida) are bi-annual producers.  They may produce a half dozen or so fruit in their off year MAX, but every other year they are heavy producers.  They've done this consistently for me over the last 6-7 years

arc310

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2021, 01:45:34 AM »
i've had my CC for 3 years now. 2 years in ground....on corriente rootstock. it's flowered last year minimally but this year has more flowers than last. not sure if i'll even see fruit as the tree is still on the small-scale. it grows kinda lanky but i had a frame around it to protect from the sun and the branches leaned against them and now they're strong enough to be upright by itself.

my sweet tart is also on corriente with the same time frame but it's larger. same thing. flowers and no fruits.

i just looked at your photos and your trees are much more bigger and older looking than mine. so it looks like i still got a couple of years to go hahaha.

i've had other varieties on turpentine but after 2 years of barely any growth...i dug them out and they seem to do better in pots. i've seen better growth with manila/corriente rootstock in my area for now.

i'm in the 626 so we get alot more heat than culver city.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 01:48:55 AM by arc310 »

weiss613

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2021, 10:02:59 AM »
I have 4 CCís that are 5 years in the ground. 10í-18í tall. Theyíve had enough time to prove themselves. I just topped 2 to convert. One CC Iím giving 1 more season to exist. The other 1 has 1 or 2 fruit and will be topped and converted after the fruit falls off or is picked. I cannot see keeping a tree that hardly produces any fruit when I can convert it to something special that produces a normal amount of fruit. Almost all of my 8 M-4ís are proving themselves here in Miami in year 3 (June 21-26, 2018) in the ground so whatís the point of sitting on a coconut flavored tree thatís not worth its keep. Yes Iím sad and disappointed but itís should be looked at as a fun project.....but it hurts to make these decisions. I have a few other varieties that Iím giving 1 more season to prove themselves or they too will be getting converted. And this episode has caused some introspection on my part too. Have I given them too much N? Maybe but then how come so many other varieties are doing well? Too little or too much water? Too much trimming post season? Not spraying enough at the right times to prevent blossom killers? Maybe Iím to blame? In any case the decision has been made but those questions can guide me going forward with the other trees.
PS Iím happy as heck and very surprised with M-4. Thank you Alex for the introduction to M-4 at the Fruit and Spice Park lecture you gave 3-4 years ago.

bsbullie

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2021, 10:44:06 AM »
I see the impatient bug strikes again.   ;)

Some varieties are precocious and some are not.  Its a growers choice to plant what they want but a variety that is not precocious dies not make it a bad variety (I am not growing CC at my new house not because its not precocious but due to other issues I was not impressed with).
- Rob

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2021, 08:32:49 AM »
There seems to be a lot of variation and opinions as to whether the Coconut Cream mango tree is productive enough to be worth the trouble. My CC tree is just starting its 5th growing season. Enclose is a photo I took yesterday from a different angle. The flowering looks good overall but we will see if the tree holds fruit in 2021. I am willing to give this CC more time (at least thru 2022) to see how it does in my microclimate and rootstock. Hopefully, it will be at least moderately productive in the future. Top working the tree is always an option but I would rather wait for the time being.

I will report back later in the year if I get fruit in 2021.
 

Coconut Cream Mango Tree (3-30-2021)

PixelTreat

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2021, 12:06:36 PM »
Whenever anyone asks me advice on fruit trees I always tell them to buy the biggest most mature tree they can get. If they have a 24" box... get it. Don't think about the money. Life is too short to wait and watch a tree grow. In this case I already had a productive mango tree, and the varieties I wanted were not available locally so I had to get it shipped and that was only available in a 3 gallon. I thought, sure I can hold out a few years...

spaugh

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2021, 01:17:04 PM »
Man, I have the opposite philosophy, growing plants is about patience not spending as much money and digging as large of a hole as possible.  But everyone can do as they please.  5 years seems like minimum time frame in CA for mango trees to size up.  I see people letting trees that are way too small hold fruit all the time.  All it does is stunt the tree thats already marginal for CA. 

Brad Spaugh

palmcity

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2021, 03:55:02 PM »
a few coconut cream on 1 tree but less than last year. Sweet tart seems ok so far.

Young people should have the opposite philosophy vs. old folks on time vs. money decisions... Thus both groups can be right at the same moment in time with opposite philosophies ...

If one knows their true ending time line, hopefully money will be of less and less importance and hopefully all will have the same ending time vs. money philosophy if if the ending time is known....  lol....

Capt Ram

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2021, 02:06:38 AM »
My coconut cream was planted about 5 years ago last year it produced two mangoes that never made it to maturity This year I have 30 mangoes so I finally have some hope everything looks good so far.. I didn't realize it would take this long I probably wouldn't have bought the tree , they're about the size of golf balls right now
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JulianoGS

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2021, 04:19:23 PM »
Totally agree with your decision on CC.  Is M4 an alternate bearer for you?
Never tasted an M4 mango, but really want to get one tree on the ground.  All I hear is great traits and amazing taste.

I have 4 CCís that are 5 years in the ground. 10í-18í tall. Theyíve had enough time to prove themselves. I just topped 2 to convert. One CC Iím giving 1 more season to exist. The other 1 has 1 or 2 fruit and will be topped and converted after the fruit falls off or is picked. I cannot see keeping a tree that hardly produces any fruit when I can convert it to something special that produces a normal amount of fruit. Almost all of my 8 M-4ís are proving themselves here in Miami in year 3 (June 21-26, 2018) in the ground so whatís the point of sitting on a coconut flavored tree thatís not worth its keep. Yes Iím sad and disappointed but itís should be looked at as a fun project.....but it hurts to make these decisions. I have a few other varieties that Iím giving 1 more season to prove themselves or they too will be getting converted. And this episode has caused some introspection on my part too. Have I given them too much N? Maybe but then how come so many other varieties are doing well? Too little or too much water? Too much trimming post season? Not spraying enough at the right times to prevent blossom killers? Maybe Iím to blame? In any case the decision has been made but those questions can guide me going forward with the other trees.
PS Iím happy as heck and very surprised with M-4. Thank you Alex for the introduction to M-4 at the Fruit and Spice Park lecture you gave 3-4 years ago.
Be very careful and mindful of what you sow, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.

weiss613

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Re: no fruit from Coconut Cream and a Sweet Tart from Florida
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2021, 02:28:30 AM »
My M-4ís will be in the ground for 3 full years from June 21-28. Since they are young I canít comment on alternate bearing. This is the first year they are bearing fruit I canít intelligently answer your question. I canít wait to see what they taste like.