The eremo- hybrids, which ones are worth it?

[Ilya11]

As was mentioned by citrange the hardiness of -24C was probably  a typo, the places in Australia were  glauca is growing  were not as cold.
HortScience article lacked an  explanation on applied statistics and the number of plants in each test. Hybrids were grafted on rough lemon, while glauca were seedlings.
Funny enough kumquat was not more hardy than Valencia.

[Skandiberg]

Yes, that -24C is evidently wrong. However it's still weird.

If we say Eremocitrus is hardy down to about the -5C range, I think we are correct. The trialed Valencia orange is also somewhere about that, kumquat maybe a bit better. But if I got it right, their hybrids took cold better than the Citrus parents. That means Eremocitrus and another Citrus has hybrids which don't have a hardiness between the range of the two, but better than either parent. Some genetic Eremo magic boosts hardiness instead of resulting an in-between cold tolerance of the two parents. It sounds stupid and I may be wrong about it but it seems to be true.

Now there may be some valid concerns about E. glauca and hybrids. It takes them a long time to start flowering and producing. That's a problem.
Also drought tolerance and gigantic root system are good in summertime, but if planted at a place like mine, with rainy winters paired with frosty weeks and warm weeks alternating, it might introduce some liability to rot. Of course, deep dormancy and a good rootstock can help. But it raises some serious doubts especially if the -12C absolute hardiness is unsure.

However Eremorange still seems to have enough good to offer as a future parent. Early ripening, zygotic tendency, pleasant tasting fruit, different leaf shape for easier recognition of successfull hybrids, deeper than average dormancy, drought and wind tolerance (the latter being very useful in winter), and this hardiness boosting habit of E. glauca which may or may not be true in the next generation. That and its real hardiness must be trialed. I want to give it a try just out of curiosity. So I aim to get one Eremorange this year and do the same as with the others on my mind. Get them, grow them in pot for a few years to make them strong and big enough, plant them out with shelter, experiment with the amount of protection needed, make all the crosses I can and grow the seeds to whatever becomes of them. And pick up some of the scientific approach of kumin to make it all work.

See you in 30 years, guys. 😀

[Ilya11]

Hopefully well before- seedlings  of eremorangeX acidless orange Gosset cross

[Skandiberg]

Nice seedlings, Ilya! And thanks for the encouraging words, I will try to live up to them.

How old are they? And are they the same old? There are a few ones lagging behind the big boys. Interestingly, their leaves have a shape of peach leaves to me. Their are reminiscent of orange leaf texture but have the narrowness of glauca bloodline.

Keep us informed when you start freeze testing them. I am very curious to see the outcome.

[Ilya11]

Pollination of last spring, growth over the winter under fluorescent lamps. They are now planted outside.

[Skandiberg]

Wow, they look quite big for being less than a year old.

[Skandiberg]

Quissac wrote back. They consulted with DPD. Shipping price is 12 euros for 0-5 kg, 15 for 5-10 kg. They say one plant should be regarded 3 kg. So the bigger size pack means 3 plants. Great customer service.

As for Eremorange 2, its fruits are just 2-3 mm bigger than the standard. It's the same in every other regard. Available from August-September. They have quite a good variety of Satsumas rarely found in Europe, from Brown's Select to Iwasaki, if anyone cares.

[bussone]

Yes, that -24C is evidently wrong. However it's still weird.

If we say Eremocitrus is hardy down to about the -5C range, I think we are correct. The trialed Valencia orange is also somewhere about that, kumquat maybe a bit better. But if I got it right, their hybrids took cold better than the Citrus parents. That means Eremocitrus and another Citrus has hybrids which don't have a hardiness between the range of the two, but better than either parent. Some genetic Eremo magic boosts hardiness instead of resulting an in-between cold tolerance of the two parents. It sounds stupid and I may be wrong about it but it seems to be true.

Now there may be some valid concerns about E. glauca and hybrids. It takes them a long time to start flowering and producing. That's a problem.
Also drought tolerance and gigantic root system are good in summertime, but if planted at a place like mine, with rainy winters paired with frosty weeks and warm weeks alternating, it might introduce some liability to rot. Of course, deep dormancy and a good rootstock can help. But it raises some serious doubts especially if the -12C absolute hardiness is unsure.

However Eremorange still seems to have enough good to offer as a future parent. Early ripening, zygotic tendency, pleasant tasting fruit, different leaf shape for easier recognition of successfull hybrids, deeper than average dormancy, drought and wind tolerance (the latter being very useful in winter), and this hardiness boosting habit of E. glauca which may or may not be true in the next generation. That and its real hardiness must be trialed. I want to give it a try just out of curiosity. So I aim to get one Eremorange this year and do the same as with the others on my mind. Get them, grow them in pot for a few years to make them strong and big enough, plant them out with shelter, experiment with the amount of protection needed, make all the crosses I can and grow the seeds to whatever becomes of them. And pick up some of the scientific approach of kumin to make it all work.

See you in 30 years, guys. 😀

Eremocitrus and poncirus may offer some dual benefit in places like Texas, where *both* winter freezes and summer drought are of concern in an area that otherwise would support citrus.

[Skandiberg]

Yes, absolutely.

I don't know why Eremo hybrids aren't used more often in breeding. I see a perspective in it. Just imagine it crossed with a yuzuquat, US 942, Bumper Changsat, Enzo pomelo, Nameiwa or a Thomasville... Very interesting bloodlines could be created.

[mikkel]

I can only speak for myself, but Eremo hybrids do not flower in my climate. At least in temperate and cool climates, they seem rather unsuitable.

[Peep]

Yes, absolutely.

I don't know why Eremo hybrids aren't used more often in breeding. I see a perspective in it. Just imagine it crossed with a yuzuquat, US 942, Bumper Changsat, Enzo pomelo, Nameiwa or a Thomasville... Very interesting bloodlines could be created.

I know forum member @Till does some crossing work with Eremo types.

[Skandiberg]

I can only speak for myself, but Eremo hybrids do not flower in my climate. At least in temperate and cool climates, they seem rather unsuitable.

Oh, that's too bad. I hope Eremorange will produce for me. I am a lot souther than you. Our summers tend to be hot and
often dry, so that may help an Eremo feel at home more.

[Skandiberg]

Yes, absolutely.

I don't know why Eremo hybrids aren't used more often in breeding. I see a perspective in it. Just imagine it crossed with a yuzuquat, US 942, Bumper Changsat, Enzo pomelo, Nameiwa or a Thomasville... Very interesting bloodlines could be created.

I know forum member @Till does some crossing work with Eremo types.

Thanks for the information. I think I will write to him at some point to ask him about his experiences. But I'm very far from making any crosses yet. My first plants will arrive in a couple of days. Hope they won't be damaged on the way.

[bussone]

I can only speak for myself, but Eremo hybrids do not flower in my climate. At least in temperate and cool climates, they seem rather unsuitable.

I had a complex eremo-hybrid that did flower in 7a... before it died.

[Skandiberg]

I can only speak for myself, but Eremo hybrids do not flower in my climate. At least in temperate and cool climates, they seem rather unsuitable.

I had a complex eremo-hybrid that did flower in 7a... before it died.

I'm sorry to hear that, bussone.

How long did it live before its death? Did you manage to try its fruit or it died before the first crop?

[bussone]

I can only speak for myself, but Eremo hybrids do not flower in my climate. At least in temperate and cool climates, they seem rather unsuitable.

I had a complex eremo-hybrid that did flower in 7a... before it died.

I'm sorry to hear that, bussone.

How long did it live before its death? Did you manage to try its fruit or it died before the first crop?

Died before the crop. It made it through a winter, was doing okay, and then collapsed in late summer. I don't have a ton of luck with pot-based plants, though.

[Skandiberg]

Ohhhh, that's too bad. I can imagine how annoyed you must have been. Sorry about that.

[bussone]

Ohhhh, that's too bad. I can imagine how annoyed you must have been. Sorry about that.

*shrug*

Family habit. My mom once killed an artificial plant.

[Skandiberg]

Mmm. She has the knowledge. 😀

[Mistercseeds]

Anyone  know of any of these rear citruses available in the United States? I have the razzlequat from Wonderlust nursery. But that’s all I can find.

[David Kipps]

I also have the razzlequat (from a now defunct nursery in Oregon).  Probably around 15 years old in a 15 gallon tub.  Overwinter inside in cool, low light basement (outdoors is zone 7).  Has never bloomed, even though same age citranges have done so for many years, producing grandchildren even.  My question is:  What environmental conditions are necessary to promote blooming of the eremo relatives?  Are they quite different from other citrus requirements?
 

[Ilya11]

Hot summer temperatures (>35C) in a previous season

[David Kipps]

Do you know if winter temps have any influence, also?  Any day-length effects?

[Ilya11]

Probably not the winter lows.
Eremorange resists to flower when kept for  a winter in the conservatory in Paris region under approximately same conditions as in a South of France ( 42N).
The only difference is in the consistently high summer over there. 

[Till]

I have a cross Changsha x E. glauca. Around 5cm now. Slow growing but speeds up now.
And my citrangeremo bears a good number of fruits. Color is changing now to yellow. Size like medium grapes. Wish me luck. I pollinated with Staraji.

I shall soon post photos. I am very buisy at the moment. I have to rebuild my greenhouse and must use any free time that work, family and our miserable weather allows me. 5°C / 41°F at night now. Often rainy. In September...