Author Topic: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood  (Read 3786 times)

Julie

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Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« on: May 26, 2023, 03:41:37 PM »
Is anyone seeing a lot of (or more than in the past) water accumulation in your neighborhood?  My street never had this issue before, I specifically bought a house that wasn't in a flood zone, but this rainy season is different.  Huge puddles are flooding the streets.  It seems like climate change is here.  Also the cold weather today is strange for this time of year.

Calusa

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2023, 03:53:20 PM »
Is anyone seeing a lot of (or more than in the past) water accumulation in your neighborhood?  My street never had this issue before, I specifically bought a house that wasn't in a flood zone, but this rainy season is different.  Huge puddles are flooding the streets.  It seems like climate change is here.  Also the cold weather today is strange for this time of year.

Julie, if having puddles in Miami means climate change is there, then climate change isn't 350 miles away in St pete, where there are piles of dry sand that's been blown freely by the wind because we have almost no rain at all. What used to be our lawns is now a crunchy mass of dead matter that sounds like you're walking across corn flakes.  ;D

Timbogrow

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2023, 04:20:45 PM »
It's probably the storm drains clogged with all the trash people from Miami throw out the window. Not to say everyone does this but many years ago the tide line there had more trash than plant debris. That was back about 17yrs ago when I lived there. I used to work at the state park behind haulover inlet. Every day seeing the mess was disturbing. People still throwing McDonald's bags,wrappers, cigarettes, drug paraphernalia that you didn't want to get stepped on out the window and straight to the intercoastal. Now those people come all the way from Miami to leave the trash on our Beaches over here. I just keep wondering who raised these people without a trash can and said it's ok to dump trash on the side of the roads instead of driving to the landfill like everyone else that doesn't like swimming in trash. Sorry didn't mean to get negative on anyone but that really was a relief not looking at the mess. Fema flood map changed since last years big storm also. I wasnt in a flood zone and now I am.

roblack

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2023, 05:46:10 PM »
Sounds like drain might be clogged/damaged. Same thing here, and has been going on for years. They replaced the pipes down the road, fixed their problem, very little standing water after rain. Water accumulates in front of our house, but not down the street, because the drain needs repair/replacment.

Orkine

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2023, 06:02:49 PM »
Your observations are both true.

Check out the US Drought Monitor
https://www.drought.gov/states/florida
or
https://www.weather.gov/tbw/droughtinfo

The slide below was from the NWS rainy season outlook presentation for south Florida.  Note that as dry as St Pete area was, Miami and Fort Lauderdale had record wet outcome for this past dry season.


« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 06:23:06 PM by Orkine »

pagnr

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2023, 06:30:00 PM »
Is anyone seeing a lot of (or more than in the past) water accumulation in your neighborhood?  My street never had this issue before, I specifically bought a house that wasn't in a flood zone, but this rainy season is different.  Huge puddles are flooding the streets.  It seems like climate change is here.  Also the cold weather today is strange for this time of year.

Julie, if having puddles in Miami means climate change is there, then climate change isn't 350 miles away in St pete, where there are piles of dry sand that's been blown freely by the wind because we have almost no rain at all. What used to be our lawns is now a crunchy mass of dead matter that sounds like you're walking across corn flakes.  ;D

That is Climate Change, the two events are linked.
The rain and weather patterns change or shift in time or geography, or the drought / rain cycle frequency changes.
Last Year was a very wet year here in Australia, this year it is already much drier, little rain.
Also the rain pattern here has move from winter rain to summer rain, similar to further north.
Disaster for grape and stone fruit farmers, with increased fungi and moulds.

Calusa

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2023, 09:53:11 PM »
Is anyone seeing a lot of (or more than in the past) water accumulation in your neighborhood?  My street never had this issue before, I specifically bought a house that wasn't in a flood zone, but this rainy season is different.  Huge puddles are flooding the streets.  It seems like climate change is here.  Also the cold weather today is strange for this time of year.

Julie, if having puddles in Miami means climate change is there, then climate change isn't 350 miles away in St pete, where there are piles of dry sand that's been blown freely by the wind because we have almost no rain at all. What used to be our lawns is now a crunchy mass of dead matter that sounds like you're walking across corn flakes.  ;D

That is Climate Change, the two events are linked.
The rain and weather patterns change or shift in time or geography, or the drought / rain cycle frequency changes.
Last Year was a very wet year here in Australia, this year it is already much drier, little rain.
Also the rain pattern here has move from winter rain to summer rain, similar to further north.
Disaster for grape and stone fruit farmers, with increased fungi and moulds.

That's climate change? Really?  ;)

I've lived in Florida my entire life, and I've seen floods and I've seen droughts. I've seen 100 degree+ temperatures decades ago and I've seen 16 degrees in Central Florida. All this in a span of 65+ years. What we are seeing in Florida right now, we have already seen it decades ago. It's weather, it's cyclical. Climate change - real climate change not the kind that CNN, NatGO and the Weather Channel hype constantly - takes place so slowly that no living human lives long enough to notice it or record it. But that won't stop the university "scientists" who have been politicized so as to keep the funding in place for their "studies", the results of which somehow dovetail perfectly with what we hear from every Chicken Little in the country. These are the same people who told us back in the 1970's that the planet was going to freeze solid and kill everything we humans need to eat.

Sorry to disagree, but I am a native Floridian and I come from a few generations of native Floridians who have more smarts and common sense and lived longer than a lot of these fakes who spew climate change non-stop.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 09:55:40 PM by Calusa »

johnb51

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2023, 10:40:59 PM »
Is anyone seeing a lot of (or more than in the past) water accumulation in your neighborhood?  My street never had this issue before, I specifically bought a house that wasn't in a flood zone, but this rainy season is different.  Huge puddles are flooding the streets.  It seems like climate change is here.  Also the cold weather today is strange for this time of year.

Julie, if having puddles in Miami means climate change is there, then climate change isn't 350 miles away in St pete, where there are piles of dry sand that's been blown freely by the wind because we have almost no rain at all. What used to be our lawns is now a crunchy mass of dead matter that sounds like you're walking across corn flakes.  ;D

That is Climate Change, the two events are linked.
The rain and weather patterns change or shift in time or geography, or the drought / rain cycle frequency changes.
Last Year was a very wet year here in Australia, this year it is already much drier, little rain.
Also the rain pattern here has move from winter rain to summer rain, similar to further north.
Disaster for grape and stone fruit farmers, with increased fungi and moulds.

That's climate change? Really?  ;)

I've lived in Florida my entire life, and I've seen floods and I've seen droughts. I've seen 100 degree+ temperatures decades ago and I've seen 16 degrees in Central Florida. All this in a span of 65+ years. What we are seeing in Florida right now, we have already seen it decades ago. It's weather, it's cyclical. Climate change - real climate change not the kind that CNN, NatGO and the Weather Channel hype constantly - takes place so slowly that no living human lives long enough to notice it or record it. But that won't stop the university "scientists" who have been politicized so as to keep the funding in place for their "studies", the results of which somehow dovetail perfectly with what we hear from every Chicken Little in the country. These are the same people who told us back in the 1970's that the planet was going to freeze solid and kill everything we humans need to eat.

Sorry to disagree, but I am a native Floridian and I come from a few generations of native Floridians who have more smarts and common sense and lived longer than a lot of these fakes who spew climate change non-stop.
All those damn "scientists" and their worthless "PhDs"!  Just trying to make money by scamming us.  Why don't they get real jobs?  >:( >:( >:(
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 10:57:13 PM by johnb51 »
John

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2023, 11:55:50 PM »
All those damn "scientists" and their worthless "PhDs"!  Just trying to make money by scamming us.  Why don't they get real jobs?  >:( >:( >:(

Some of those smartass PHD's are now telling us that climate change is racist. There's no end to the bullshit flowing from academia these days regarding climate change.

It's really about protecting their jobs, keeping the government funding coming in, to fund those paychecks. Tell them what they want to hear. Wonderful arrangement.

Oh, there's much more to it than that but for the sake of this discussion I'll skip it.  ;D

CeeJey

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2023, 12:48:40 AM »
EDIT: It's probably pointless to engage with people whose position boils down to "well it's not raining where *I* am so clearly it's not raining *anywhere*, and also my recollection of the weather in the place I live is more valid evidence than global satellite data" as if that were evidence or proof of anything, but for anybody else besides Calusa who's still on the fence on the whole climate change thing: Shell Oil (https://www.climatefiles.com/shell/1988-shell-report-greenhouse/) and Exxon (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abk0063) both had internal research as far back as the 1970's that fossil fuel emissions were causing a CO2 buildup that would have effects before 2050. In fact, Exxon's own internal projections from that time period (https://www.climatefiles.com/harvard/assessing-exxonmobils-global-warming-projections-science-january-2023-supran-rahmstorf-oreskes-reference-documents/) are very close to independent scientists then and later, including those that Calusa dismisses as just wanting that gub'mint cash (a motivating factor that wouldn't have applied to Exxon's internal scientists, btw). Possibly closer, actually, since we're on track to hit 2 degrees of global warming (GLOBAL, so not just St. Petersburg or Miami) closer to Exxon's 1980's estimate than some more conservative models.

So yeah, we don't have to trust the scientists that people like Calusa thinks are biased for whatever reason, because the oil companies themselves came to the same conclusions as all those other climate scientists forty freaking years ago.

Also, ffs, Miami is 30-something feet lower in elevation on average than St Petersburg even before considering differences like water abatement or position in regards to weather or soil composition; it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that hey maybe the *lower elevation* coastal city might see effects sooner, assuming the Exxon and Shell scientists to be correct.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2023, 03:05:38 AM by CeeJey »

JR561

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2023, 04:48:13 AM »
All those damn "scientists" and their worthless "PhDs"!  Just trying to make money by scamming us.  Why don't they get real jobs?  >:( >:( >:(

Some of those smartass PHD's are now telling us that climate change is racist. There's no end to the bullshit flowing from academia these days regarding climate change.

It's really about protecting their jobs, keeping the government funding coming in, to fund those paychecks. Tell them what they want to hear. Wonderful arrangement.

Oh, there's much more to it than that but for the sake of this discussion I'll skip it.  ;D

When I was a child it was the ozone layer.

For my parents they were told we were headed for an ice age.

Lots of theories but they keep changing the message.

No doubt the climate will change it always has, but we are still basically idiots when it comes to predicting anything.

The people invested in Green Tech seem have tons to lose if people arent on message.

Similar to what we just went through with big pharma.

johnb51

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2023, 08:53:51 AM »
No doubt the climate will change it always has, but we are still basically idiots when it comes to predicting anything.
The people invested in Green Tech seem have tons to lose if people arent on message.
Yes, we are basically idiots, but I'd say for other reasons.  And yes, most of Green Tech and "transition to renewables" is another way for corporations and the super-rich to make money.  (Look at Bill Gates, the supposed philanthropist.  He's got his greedy fingers in everything.)
John

roblack

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2023, 09:19:50 AM »
The climate is changing, and scientists aren't all a bunch of idiots with twisted agendas. Most of them want to add to our knowledge base and understanding of how things work. There are other people with agendas that are pushing lies and splitting people.

As finicky as we are about our plants, why is it so hard to understand that industrialization and all the stuff we have done as we have progressed, has changed our climate and has effects upon living creatures? It's like arguing about whether or not the heater or ac affects the indoor climate. I agree that the doomsday predictions are a bit much to take, and extremists on whatever side make others look irrational.

The US military is taking climate change and sea level rise seriously, but we know they love to waste money. lol

Miami-Dade was in a drought situation too, until recently. Lots of rain daily for the last couple of weeks.

johnb51

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2023, 10:47:20 AM »
The climate is changing, and scientists aren't all a bunch of idiots with twisted agendas. Most of them want to add to our knowledge base and understanding of how things work. There are other people with agendas that are pushing lies and splitting people.

As finicky as we are about our plants, why is it so hard to understand that industrialization and all the stuff we have done as we have progressed, has changed our climate and has effects upon living creatures? It's like arguing about whether or not the heater or ac affects the indoor climate. I agree that the doomsday predictions are a bit much to take, and extremists on whatever side make others look irrational.

The US military is taking climate change and sea level rise seriously, but we know they love to waste money. lol

Miami-Dade was in a drought situation too, until recently. Lots of rain daily for the last couple of weeks.
No arguments with this.  At least from me.   :)
John

CeeJey

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2023, 01:03:22 PM »
When I was a child it was the ozone layer.

That's because there WAS an expanding hole in the ozone layer and then the largest global cooperative effort in history banned the use of the chemicals responsible and the issue improved. This is actually a counter-example to your point, not support for it.

For my parents they were told we were headed for an ice age.

I highly doubt that they were told that consistently (because they weren't, that was a fringe theory), but we WERE on track for a natural cooling period EXCEPT that this cycle was and is disrupted by greenhouse gas emissions. This is discussed in most relevant science on the subject including in the old oil company research that I linked literally one message up: Shell's own internal communications explicitly rejected the "coming ice age" crank theory that was making the rounds at the time as a counter to the CO2 theory as did other scientists at the time.

Lots of theories but they keep changing the message.

No, the scientific messaging on this has been extremely consistent since the 70's: greenhouse gas emissions is making the planet warmer and is going to have effects including but not limited to stronger and more frequent storms (check), disrupted weather patterns (check), collapse of local ecosystems, replacement of permafrost with seasonal ice (check), rises in sea level from the loss of the permafrost (check), and all that is going to have knock-on effects towards human society.

Effects like, oh I don't know, coastal cities at sea level seeing greatly increased seasonal flooding due to many of the above.

What you think is "changing the messaging" is a combination of admitted uncertainty inherent to modeling large-scale chaotic systems, normal disagreement over minor details, but more relevantly an intentional large-scale decades-long astroturfing campaign by the fossil fuel lobby trying to fool people like you into thinking that this isn't a problem. The only real differing opinions are on timescale, overall severity at any given, and micro-effects as opposed to macro-effects.

Oh and at what point we can no longer do anything about it, that's in debate too.

No doubt the climate will change it always has, but we are still basically idiots when it comes to predicting anything.

No, the predictions have actually been pretty good for such a large and hard to model system as the global climate. YOU don't understand the predictive model so you say things like this, so that you don't have to think about it, change your opinion, or lift a finger to do anything.

The people invested in Green Tech seem have tons to lose if people arent on message.

Not nearly as much as the fossil fuel companies have to lose if every competent scientist in the world, NASA, every branch of the US Government (including the military) who has independently looked into this, every other government of a developed country in the entire world, and the oil companies themselves, all turned out to be right.

You get how stupid your conspiracy theory sounds when examined closely, right? That "the green tech people", whoever they are, have managed to somehow make up a threat that has fooled every government in the world and every competent scientist acting in good faith in the world (including the ones that work for the fossil fuel companies!) to maintain their strangehold on... a tiny amount of market share compared to the fossil fuel companies that continue to dominate the energy sector? Seriously?

Go google "occam's razor" please. The most likely explanation and the one that actually has the most evidence is that climate change is real and that the fossil fuel lobby and associated industries that depend on it have been spending an enormous amount of money and manpower to slow or stall legislation and public support. Hell man, I literally posted links to documents that show them talking about this in the 80's in the comment above yours. This isn't hard math, bro, Big Windmill isn't the issue here.

Similar to what we just went through with big pharma.

Pharma is a GREAT example but not for the reasons you think. They routinely spend enormous sums on regulatory capture and hiding the dangers of their own products from the public, to a lesser extent than the fossil fuel industry but same playbook. Perdue Pharma's lobbying and public obfuscation of the extreme addictiveness and dangers of oxytocin kicking off the current opioid epidemic is actually a decent but not perfect parallel for what the fossil fuel companies have been doing in regards to lobbying and obfuscating the effects of greenhouse gas emissions for corporate profit.

Again, this is a great counter-example for your point of view, not support for it.

drymifolia

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2023, 01:28:54 PM »
Just wanted to thank CeeJay and johnb51 for fighting the good fight here, but it's unlikely to change any minds. For political reasons, many people have decided "academia is bad" and "big business is good" and until the leaders of their wing of politics finally accept what every good-faith scientist in the world has long since accepted, they will continue to spout the same denialist conspiracy theories their leaders are spouting.


FMfruitforest

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2023, 01:51:46 PM »
I worry for Canada, the North Pole has been a barrier between them and communismÖ

kapps

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2023, 01:56:10 PM »
Yes, agreed drymifolia.

Getting back to the OPís question.  Has there been any recent construction in your area?  It can affect the hydrology of the area. Retention ponds can drain the surrounding area while building up a nearby neighborhood can cause flooding in the older areas.

CeeJey

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2023, 03:21:52 PM »
Just wanted to thank CeeJay and johnb51 for fighting the good fight here, but it's unlikely to change any minds. For political reasons, many people have decided "academia is bad" and "big business is good" and until the leaders of their wing of politics finally accept what every good-faith scientist in the world has long since accepted, they will continue to spout the same denialist conspiracy theories their leaders are spouting.

I appreciate the sentiment. It's non-academic to me, my state's still in the midst of negotiations for water rights from MUCH reduced sources that we share with other states, for a start. Like, it's already here and biting those of us in the Southwest in the bum.

Also we're on a forum that is very heavily centered on pushing the boundaries of very climate-specific produce; everything we talk about on here is at enhanced vulnerability for any sort of environmental disruption. It boggles my mind that people who spend oodles of cash and personal time to *grow finicky tropical fruit* are sometimes so willing to toe a party line or just stick their fingers in their ears without doing some critical thinking on something that might impact their trees (which, you know, is something I don't like to think about either with the water situation but it's something that I have to weigh).

Yes, agreed drymifolia.

Getting back to the OPís question.  Has there been any recent construction in your area?  It can affect the hydrology of the area. Retention ponds can drain the surrounding area while building up a nearby neighborhood can cause flooding in the older areas.

Good question. That was my (non-engineer) understanding of Miami's situation too, that the loss of draining wetland areas for non-draining concrete was the main driver of the local flooding and sea level rise was mainly an accelerant. Also, looks like precipitation HAS been notably higher than last year for the same months: https://www.weather.gov/mfl/mia_cliplot

Orkine

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2023, 05:06:20 PM »
During a recent presentation (2023 Rainy Season Outlook) the national weather service noted that Miami international airport rainfall station recorded 31 plus inches of rain this past dry season (ending May 15th).  It was the 12th wettest dry season on record, with about 10 inches more rain than normal (average).  That is why it is wetter than normal in parts of Miami Dade County.  Same in parts of Broward County. 

The back and forth is about why it rained so much this dry season.  Some attribute it to climate change, some are suggesting (perhaps not as articulately) that it could be part of some natural cycle. (Scientists in the region have long looked at teleconnections - relating natural occurrences and cycles like ENSO (El NiŮo/Southern Oscillation) or AMO (Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation) to rainfall in Florida with mixed outcome.  The important thing is neither of these preclude the other and you could have both climate change and natural cycles affecting what we see any one year. 

Enjoy the banter, it is going on in so many places. 



Calusa

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2023, 06:38:51 PM »
I worry for Canada, the North Pole has been a barrier between them and communismÖ

Good one!  ;)   LMAO

Julie

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2023, 11:43:17 PM »
Iíve been trying to upload an image but this site will never let me. I do think the storm drains being clogged could be the culprit now because the water accumulation is areas of the street where there are storm drains and they are draining very slowly. Is there someone I should contact to report this issue? I donít live in a HOA community. Yes sadly people do throw trash on my street

Julie

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2023, 11:51:46 PM »
Yes, agreed drymifolia.

Getting back to the OPís question.  Has there been any recent construction in your area?  It can affect the hydrology of the area. Retention ponds can drain the surrounding area while building up a nearby neighborhood can cause flooding in the older areas.

Yes there has, though not in the most recent year. In the past few years some lots that were farmland near me were developed. I do think the storm drain clog explanation seems more likely, because this is a huge difference from last year

Julie

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2023, 12:10:33 AM »
It is logical that the way people live, which is not aligned with nature, and is harmful to nature, itís pretty logical that it would have consequences on the environment. Not going based off any academic studies, the media, political leaders, etc. it just makes complete sense. Yes, weather has always been unpredictable, and yes, different people in the spotlight have made incorrect weather related theories in the past.

Pollution-filling up multiple huge green trash bins twice a week is the norm. Single use everything, plastic packaging, etc. the government could actually do something to make an impact here because there are biodegradable alternatives to single use plastic that wouldnít even disrupt peoples lives that much but they donít

Chemicals-spraying all kinds of chemicals constantly they end up in the ocean, land, etc

Development-getting rid of green spaces canít be good, itís pretty well documented that cities are hotter than rural areas

Burning fossil fuels- again pretty logical that this isnít good. If I had the money I would look more into ďgreen techĒ like solar panels and electric vehicles - Iím doing fpl solar together, not sure if this is legit but it doesnít cost anything. I try to drive as little as possible and combine trips and using as little electricity as possible (turning off lights, etc)

Cutting down green spaces like Amazon rainforest for agriculture-etc

Im not perfect and I want to be better. But at this point it seems like caring about the planet is more of about personal integrity because the impact of one person/family being eco friendly isnít going to make a difference because not many other people care. But still, itís important to me and I want to continue to do what I can.

Yes, climate change weather is fluctuating weather

« Last Edit: May 28, 2023, 12:12:37 AM by Julie »

Julie

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Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2023, 12:34:57 AM »
I personally donít think science is the answer. Dow AgroSciences probably employs tons of scientists. The answer is living in a way that aligns with nature.  People arenít going to give up all their modern conveniences but there are ways we can all improve. Governments could do more to help, actually a lot of improvements could be made with government intervention (ex stopping single use plastics-bringing your own straw or fork to a restaurant isnít that much of an inconvenience, and there are paper product alternatives as well) - not that anyone in the government will do this

 

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