New Citrumelos: Iva Swingle and Dingle

[Mulberry0126]

Hi everyone,
I wanted to publish this information on more than just our website/YouTube, this way more people can find out about these varieties. In our recent YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIJXTR71wTA) I presented 4 unique strains of Swingle citrumelo, all of which differed substantially in taste, size, and other fruit characteristics, despite the plants looking extremely similar. This came to my surprise considering Swingle is a highly nucellar variety of citrumelo, and finding off-types is more difficult, not to mention they are usually discarded when being used for rootstock.

'Bishop' (now 'Iva Swingle') citrumelo was the largest strain, while also containing the fewest seeds. It had a rather pleasant flavor, even to my wife who is sensitive to hardy citrus off-flavors. It was comparable to or better than Dunstan which is even more surprising. It also measured a higher brix than Dunstan (12° vs. 7-9°) and was perceivably sweet.

'Dingle' citrumelo was similar in size to standard Swingle, but the fruit were slightly more rounded, and with a deeper yellow color inside and out. The fruit tasted (and looked) somewhat intermediate between Swingle and Dunstan (Dunstan + Swingle = Dingle), despite the tree looking like a Swingle. It had substantially more grapefruit bitterness but it was not completely unpalatable, and it had a rather high brix (13°), and perceivable sweetness which aided in its edibility.

Both of these varieties were discovered by Alan Bishop, hence the name which credits him for this discovery. He also discovered the Bishop citrandarin, which is an improved seedling of US-852. I am grateful he brought these fruit to me to review; I hope both Bishop selections get the attention they deserve. Needless to say, I will be top working my Swingle trees with the 'Iva Swingle' citrumelo. It provides less seeds but the improved size and taste are well worth it.

[a_Vivaldi]

Better than Dunstan is encouraging. Did Alan say if these were seedlings or bud mutations?

Is he on this forum?

Great work and many thanks to Alan Bishop for discovering these varieties as well as the Bishop citrandarin, but also to you for putting in the effort to popularize them.

[Mulberry0126]

Better than Dunstan is encouraging. Did Alan say if these were seedlings or bud mutations?

Is he on this forum?

Great work and many thanks to Alan Bishop for discovering these varieties as well as the Bishop citrandarin, but also to you for putting in the effort to popularize them.

Thank you, and yes, he is @hardyvermont.
He wasn't 100% sure if the Bishop citrumelo was a seedling of Swingle or some sort of Pomelo x Poncirus, but seeing photos of the tree, and the leaves and fruit in person helped confirm it was likely a Swingle seedling. The fruit is also uniform throughout the tree from what I could tell.
The Dingle citrumelo originated from a nursery in NC, where it was simply called "citrumelo": http://www.chillypalmtree.com/CITRUMELO.html

[mikkel]

Hello,

the Bishop Citrumelo in your video, the one marked as “not Swingle”, looks very similar to a N°82 from the Eisenhut nursery in Switzerland.
The parentage of N°82 is also unknown. The only certainty is that it comes from the citrus grower Bernhard Voss.
The fruit quality is quite good, I would say it is one of the best hybrid varieties.
@flo can certainly give a more detailed description, he has a fruiting tree. I have only been able to try a few fruits.

There is another type, which I call BB Citrumelo. This also comes from Bernhard Voss, but was a mix-up or it is simply the rootstock that has taken over. According to the label, it should be a Morton.
There are a few differences to N°82 but I suspect it could be the same variety.
BB Citrumelo has a mild flavor, not very sour but not sweet either. I'll be sent some more fruit soon and will be able to report back better.

Just to start with, I wonder if “not Swingle” and these two could be connected somehow. In the beginning, Bernhard Voss received many varieties from the US and some plants or seedlings even returned to the US and only get mature there. Carolina Lime, for example, is a seedling he sent to Stan.

[mikkel]

BB Citrumelo





the tree

[Mulberry0126]

BB Citrumelo





the tree

Beautiful fruit and tree. It looks quite similar to the Bishop, though the plant itself seems a bit different. What is the story behind the BB citrumelo?

[mikkel]

All I know is that it was bought as a Morton by Bernhard Voss. Bernhard Voss unfortunately no longer knows exactly what he had. The same with N°82.

[mikkel]

N°82

Picture by flo

[mikkel]

btw How can I resize the pictures via the BB Code?

[Mulberry0126]

Oh yes I've heard that one is good. I'm not sure about the picture resizing, I actually haven't been able to attach images to my posts today.

[BorisR]

btw How can I resize the pictures via the BB Code?

Here:

Code: [Select]

[img height=100]url[/img]

[Ilya11]

My Z82 flowered for the first time this year. It refused to flower for years , the budwood was from Mikkel.






Probably the best citrumelo that I tasted, juicy, early ripening ( beginning of November), some bitterness, but not exceeding, good balance sour/sugar 13°Brix, outside some poncirus smell, but no smell at all in juice, no internal sticky oils.
Interestingly, on Eisenhut nursery description it mentioned that "according to an old list it could be cv. Sacaton R.W. Hudson"

[Mulberry0126]

Hello,

the Bishop Citrumelo in your video, the one marked as “not Swingle”, looks very similar to a N°82 from the Eisenhut nursery in Switzerland.
The parentage of N°82 is also unknown. The only certainty is that it comes from the citrus grower Bernhard Voss.
The fruit quality is quite good, I would say it is one of the best hybrid varieties.
@flo can certainly give a more detailed description, he has a fruiting tree. I have only been able to try a few fruits.

There is another type, which I call BB Citrumelo. This also comes from Bernhard Voss, but was a mix-up or it is simply the rootstock that has taken over. According to the label, it should be a Morton.
There are a few differences to N°82 but I suspect it could be the same variety.
BB Citrumelo has a mild flavor, not very sour but not sweet either. I'll be sent some more fruit soon and will be able to report back better.

Just to start with, I wonder if “not Swingle” and these two could be connected somehow. In the beginning, Bernhard Voss received many varieties from the US and some plants or seedlings even returned to the US and only get mature there. Carolina Lime, for example, is a seedling he sent to Stan.

Sorry, I didn't see this message at first when I asked about BB citrumelo. The Iva Swingle that we have here definitely sounds very similar to those. I'll attach some pictures when I'm able to. It was one of the best citrumelos I had, which was surprising since I didn't expect it to be very different from Swingle. It's no wonder N°82 tastes so good too, 13° Bx is quite good for a citrumelo from what I've seen.
I wondered about Carolina Lime's origin, it seems similar but not the same as Clem x Tri x Clem. It's probably one of my favorite hardy citrus I've tried. I wish it was easier to share these varieties between the US and EU.

[Mulberry0126]

The tree in the photo is the Bishop (Iva Swingle) citrumelo. The photo was provided by Alan Bishop.

[Skandiberg]

That's a beautiful tree.

[mikkel]

Just a though could it be a polyploid Swingle and the European types as well? The similarity is striking, whether the relationship is excluded

[Mulberry0126]

Just a though could it be a polyploid Swingle and the European types as well? The similarity is striking, whether the relationship is excluded

That may be a possibility, especially considering the thick rinds and leaves, particularly on the European types. I'm not sure about the one we have here in the US, I'll have to examine it more as the grafts grow and maybe have it tested.

[vnomonee]

if it turns out to be polyploid it should be hardier than "regular" swingle 

Just a though could it be a polyploid Swingle and the European types as well? The similarity is striking, whether the relationship is excluded

That may be a possibility, especially considering the thick rinds and leaves, particularly on the European types. I'm not sure about the one we have here in the US, I'll have to examine it more as the grafts grow and maybe have it tested.

[hardyvermont]

The Bishop citrandarin has been more simply been called the Bishop.  Adding another plant with a similar name will cause confusion.  Now every time a plant is mentioned, it needs to be called a Bishop citrandarin or a Bishop citrumelo.  Before this name gets established, let's name this plant Iva Swingle.  The name contains more information, as it is most probably a seedling of a tree that grew in Iva South Carolina.  Bishop would continue to be used for the citrandarin, and Iva for a probable Swingle seedling.

The parent tree was probably a rootstock that survived after the original edible citrus tree died.  The fruit was collected several years ago so I am not positive.

Currently the tree has curled leaves.  The picture is from a protected area where it is easier to see the leaves.  They are not serrated leaves, and not thickened, so probably not tetraploid

[mikkel]

I wondered about Carolina Lime's origin, it seems similar but not the same as Clem x Tri x Clem. It's probably one of my favorite hardy citrus I've tried.

I have also noticed the similarity in Clem x Tri x Clem. It is quite possible that Carolina Lime came to Hamburg as seed and then returned to Stan as a seedling.

[Mulberry0126]

The Bishop citrandarin has been more simply been called the Bishop.  Adding another plant with a similar name will cause confusion.  Now every time a plant is mentioned, it needs to be called a Bishop citrandarin or a Bishop citrumelo.  Before this name gets established, let's name this plant Iva Swingle.  The name contains more information, as it is most probably a seedling of a tree that grew in Iva South Carolina.  Bishop would continue to be used for the citrandarin, and Iva for a probable Swingle seedling.

The parent tree was probably a rootstock that survived after the original edible citrus tree died.  The fruit was collected several years ago so I am not positive.

Currently the tree has curled leaves.  The picture is from a protected area where it is easier to see the leaves.  They are not serrated leaves, and not thickened, so probably not tetraploid

I agree with this so I will refer to it as the Iva Swingle too; I edited my previous posts to reflect the new name. Thanks for the close up of the leaves, that definitely helps. You can tell from this image it is different but similar to Swingle, but not tetraploid. Very interesting!

[cbakker]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the the Tropical Fruit Forum, but I'm really interested in trying to grow some cold-hardy citrus in Zone 7b.  Based on the tasting videos provided by The Mulberries Edible Plant Nursery (https://www.youtube.com/@themulberries), I'm really curious about the Bishop Citrandarin and the Iva Swingle Citrumelo, and this was the only thread that I found where both of those varieties mentioned.  They seem like some of the best-tasting 50% Poncirus hybrids - maybe even good for fresh eating. 

I'd prefer to be able to taste the fruit before going to all the effort of trying to grow them, so I was wondering if anyone on the thread might be growing them or know of someone who is.  If so, I'd be happy to pay for a small shipment of fruit (say, three of each fruit so that I can get a reasonable sample and have enough to share with my family).  Is there anyone who'd be able to help me?  My apologies if this is the wrong thread or wrong kind of thread in which to make that kind of request - I don't have a lot of experience posting on message boards.

[vnomonee]

Will be testing Iva grafts this winter here in NJ and update. 3 large grafts on a swingle that is against a retaining wall, and 1 graft on poncirus that is out in the open but also close to the roof of our garage (house is on a hill with garage at street level). I have seedlings from the Iva seeds themulberries sent me as well as dingle (somewhere lol) the Iva are in pots but I can't remember where I put the Dingle lol. I also have some troyer citrange x pomelo that are too small to plant so I'll test those next season. Those probably won't be hardy in z7a at all.

[vnomonee]

Iva on Swingle









Iva on poncirus

[Tom_GA]

Another interesting Swingle variant is the one I called 'Dallas.' A friend discovered it growing at a park many years ago in Dallas, TX. It has better flavor than Swingle. I donated a tree years ago to Woodlanders Nursery in Aiken, SC, and there is a large specimen there now. They use it for stock for the nursery.