Tropical Apple/Pear Relatives

[Galatians522]

Is anyone out there growing tropical apple relatives such as Assam Apple (Docynia indica) or Taiwan Crabapple (Malus doumeri var formosana)?

My curiosity was pricked by a video from Jan Dolin showing a Granny Smith apple fruiting (somewhat sparsely) in her central Florida yard. If the tree had been larger, the yield would not have been that bad. It made me think that the dwarfing rootstocks used for most apples are not good for Florida.

That reminded me of some reading I had done in the past. Apparently, Assam Apple is quite graft compatible with Quince and pear and is an evergreen native to tropical and sub tropical India. Taiwan Crabapple is native to subtropical southern China and tropical Vietnam (where it is reported to grow with coffee and citrus). John Fairey gardens apparently has a specimine in Texas that is quite at home.

[roblack]

Curious as well.

Just received a box of Granny Smiths and Honey Crisps from WA. Crispy and delicious. So much better than grocery store.

[SplorKeLZ]

Interesting, i wonder how they taste?

I always take our WA apples for granted lol

[Galatians522]

Interesting, i wonder how they taste?

I always take our WA apples for granted lol

Not that great fresh from what I understand due to some astringency. They would probably taste fine in a crabapple jelly or pickle recipes. Use as a rootstock and in hybridization with cultuvated apple would be the main interest.

However, I have never tasted either. So, I may be wrong. Hopefully, someone who has experience can comment.

[RS]

Galatians, you may already know about Stone River Nursery in Orlando who's growing and experimenting with lots of different apples, an overview is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-G7QymgJqM. I saw another video last year about rootstock/grafting/interstock/etc that he's using but can't remember the details.

It was exciting to see apples fruiting in central FL! Jan Doolin's videos are great too.

[Galatians522]

I have seen some of JR's videos before. I did not realize that he had a nursery. It is quite remarkable to see what he has throwing fruit there in Orlando. I wonder if he grows anything on standard roots.

It seems interesting to me that many apples found in low chill areas are seedlings. Granny Smith pops up quite a bit in the family tree, too. The Revrend Morgan apple from Houston, Texas (for example) was a Granny Smith seedling.

Eliza Greenman (Hog Tree) has some very interesting thoughts on the topic...

"The Fruit Explorers, a group of which I’m a founding member (along with Pete Halupka of Harvest Roots Farm and Ferment), traveled around the South last year looking for all sorts of apple trees. By far, the healthiest trees we found were those on standard rootstock or growing on their own roots. We were in the hot, humid, zone 7a-8a South which is known for all sorts of rots, fireblight strikes, fungal infections…you name it. And the trees that looked the best were the big ones. All of this observation caused me to believe that we probably have the best chances of growing low-input trees if they are on big roots."

Here is the link to the rest of the blog.

https://elizapples.com/tag/root-graft/

Everything she says makes sense to me. Very occationally you find an old pear tree around here. They are grafted to Callery pear (standard) roots. I've never found an "old" apple tree around here and I can assure you it was not for lack of planting. Is Malus doumeri var. formosana the Callery pear of apples (hopefully without the invasive tendencies)?

[RS]

JR mentioned using G.890 for the custom grafted apple trees he sells, which I believe is on the larger end of apple rootstocks but still semi-dwarf.

Thanks for sharing the blog post, that does seem to make sense about standard rootstock performing better in the south given the general low vigor of apples here. It looks like Malus doumeri var. formosana grows to about 15-20'.

New Zealand Monty's Surprise (supposed to be "low chill" but unknown how low) on standard rootstock with Granny Smith for pollination is on my wish list to try out!

[Galatians522]

The G 890 does look interesting (50%-70% of standard size with high fire blight resistance).

Here is a link to an apple nursery in Uganda. I love how they put a ☺ next to the disease resistant varieties. Its interesting that the three with the lowest chill requirement (by bloom time) Anna, Dorset Gold, and Shell of Alabama all are listed as disease susceptible. King David and Revrend Morgan looked interesting and disease resistant. King David is also a very hard apple until ripe which suposedly helps with insect pressure.

https://www.kuffelcreekapplenursery.com/apple_varieties.htm

Regarding Malus doumeri var. formosana, there is probably significant difference in tree size based on soil type. The original Vietnamese specimen that was used to describe the species (when it was still thought to be part of Docynia) was massive. I think the description said 4' trunk and over 60' tall, but don't quote me.

[RS]

Great info about disease resistant varieties for the tropics, Galatians. I had no idea apples were growing in Uganda.

Along with the varieties you mentioned, I'm also surprised Granny Smith isn't on the ☺ list, Jan Doolin reports it's one of the best varieties she grows.

[Galatians522]

Great info about disease resistant varieties for the tropics, Galatians. I had no idea apples were growing in Uganda.

Along with the varieties you mentioned, I'm also surprised Granny Smith isn't on the ☺ list, Jan Doolin reports it's one of the best varieties she grows.

I was fairly surprised myself. Some one on the forum brought Kuffle Creek up in a discussion and educated me. I was wondering about Granny Smith, too. Maybe its just not well adapted to Uganda's conditions. Possibly a susceptibility to something that is only seasonal here but that would be a constant issue in the highland tropics like powdery mildew? They also detested Ein Sheimer which Fruit Wood Nursery claims is good and highly disease resistant. Jan said Ein Sheimer was her best producer, even if the apples were not as sweet as some. We had an Ein Sheimer on dwarfing rootstock 30 years ago. I don't recall that it ever bloomed. Maybe it was mislabeled.